Mineral Additions for the mash or boiler?

[fisherman]

Hello,
When calculating my mineral additions for the mash I weigh out the minerals mix them and add them to the grist in a ratio to litres of mash water i.e. So for a 50 litre brew I would divide the minerals by 50. Then multiply that number by litres in the mash and add to the grist.
Is this correct to add mixed minerals to the mash or should I just add gypsom to the mash then mixed minerals to the boil ?.
I have read but never used the water calculator on the homebrew forum webpage. It states Gypsom only in the mash then the mix of half of the gypsom + calcium chloride flake+ salt and epsom just in the boil. Is the mixed salts spoiling the mash?.
Please help if you can. Should I just add gypsom to the mash or mixed salts?. I have my water in the HLT ready to mash and will not drop it until later if I have any replies.
Thank you for any replies

[Belter]

My understanding is that each of those minerals will affect mash PH. So need to be added to the mash not the boiler.

[mark4newman]

Hi



Minerals should be added to get the correct PH for the mash. (EZ water will give you an idea of what to add to the mash_. CaCl and CaSo4 bring down the PH ie make it more acid. CaCo3 makes it more alkaline.

Therefore you need to add the right amount of minerals to get the PH right. (5.45Ph at room temp is what I aim at) . (NB minerals aren't the only addition to effect the PH, you can acidify the liquor or add acid malt to the mash)

Then in order, I would add the Gypsum first to the mash, as it is harder to dissolve than Cacl

Any salts, that aren't needed for the mash PH, add to the boil.

Ohh, and you need to make sure you have enough mineral additions, to get the Ca level to about 50ppm, for the yeast

[Matt12398]

I wholeheartedly recommend Martin Brungard's Bru'n Water spreadsheet. Google it. It takes a bit of getting your head around but it's very helpful.

[Bribie]

As a BIAB brewer I start off with full volume of water anyway. However it has always puzzled me how the 3V brewers deal with the issue. For example you might want to adjust your water to Burton, or Dublin, or Dortmund etc. whilst replicating a particular style. Classic example being Pilsen.

Now a commercial brewery would mash with say Dortmund Water then sparge with Dortmund water because that's, well, their water. So if you wanted to imitate that, wouldn't you treat your entire supply to the same specs, not just the mash liquor?

[orlando]

The key is mash pH. So treating your water as a whole can be OK it depends depends not just on what style you are brewing but what the recipe is and what your own starting water is. Brewers in Dortmund or PIlsen were not trying to brew other styles. I would like to see Pilsen try to brew a stout with their water . If they did they would have to treat their water and again probably have to treat mash and sparge separately.

These factors are all important if you want to brew a beer with your water that is just not conducive to the style of beer you're attempting. Your malt bill varies and as such will more or less acidify the mash water, indeed you may not even need to acidify your water for the mash to reach the target pH but your sparge liquour must always have low pH (under 6) so if your water for that particular style doesn't need the mash acidifying other than through the malt but would leave your sparge liquour's pH above 6 then you would have to treat separately. For example with my water I can brew a Porter or a Stout relying solely on the malt to bring the mash pH into range (although a slight tweak is better), my unacidified sparge water though would ruin it.

It is actually easier for me to treat separately even in circumstances where treating all of the liquour would be fine. This is because I use gravity for my mash and sparge. I treat the mash liquour in the HLT, typically around the 10-15 litre mark and lift the whole lot into place, I then pump the sparge water from my boiler to the HLT once the mash is underway as this is 30+ litres and that's a bit awkward to lift over your head . One other comment on this, if you are using acid to reduce alkalinity always treat the water when it is cold, once it is heated you begin to reduce the alkalinity of the water so any treatment based on cold water volumes is likely to be over acidified.

[barney]

There is no saying that Dortmund Water supply has not changed over the last few hundred years and even then is is impossible to know what the breweries did to the water. Acid malts were/still are utilised to correct the mash PH because of the unsuitability of many waters.

[orlando]

There is no saying that Dortmund Water supply has not changed over the last few hundred years and even then is is impossible to know what the breweries did to the water. Acid malts were/still are utilised to correct the mash PH because of the unsuitability of many waters.

This is a good point and one that I largely ignore now as I find that if I can get the mash pH in the right range for the beer I'm brewing then I'm only really interested in is it broadly right for dark/light bitters or broadly right for porters/stouts, I don't brew lagers. The next concern is do I want to emphasise the malt or the hops or not, this is where the salt additions count, chloride/sulphate ratio etc and of course getting enough calcium in the right range too, that's it. I have been told by experienced brewers way better than I will ever be that water treatment is over complicated; they're right!

[barney]

Orlando, That sounds pretty similar to what I am currently doing to treat my water. I set out to use the minimum additions possible and try to adjust the chloride/sulphite balance within that target calcium range.

[orlando]

Orlando, That sounds pretty similar to what I am currently doing to treat my water. I set out to use the minimum additions possible and try to adjust the chloride/sulphite balance within that target calcium range.

Although it has taken me awhile I'm now getting to grips with Martin's calculator and it has made it very simple.

[barney]

I have looked at that calculator three or four times over the last couple of years. It looks like it will do the business.
The water knowledge section is excellent, found it particularly helpful as it lists the quantity of Gypsum/calcium chloride to add that we may achieve the desired Calcium content.