Pale malt substituted for lager (pilsner) malt

[grahamotter]

Hi all,

Firstly, thanks for all the help Jim's Beer Kit posters have given me since my epic journey of beer making (which IS a mans best friend despite what dog lovers think!)

I've just done a lager from grain but it's a proper fail, really bad tasting due to me reading 'use 2 litres of water per kilo of grain' as 'use 2 gallons of water per kilo of grain' in my mash tun! (oops!)

I'm going to do a pale ale next i think as I've just bought a 25Kg sack of pale malt.

I'm just wondering;
as pale male isn't that much different from lager (pilsner) malt apart from the fact that pale malt can be mashed at a single temperature and lager malt needs a stepped infusion mash, what temperature and how long should I mash a pale malt at to use in a lager?

If I can quite happily use my pale malt in a lager but using the same method, apart from the mashing, then I'd be a happy brewer!

Many thanks in advance

[seymour]

Good questions. Determining your ideal mash temperature is as much art as science, but you'll come to your own conclusions through experience. Check out recipes on this site for beers similar to your target and see what temperature they call for. Generally speaking, the lower the temp, the more conversion from starch to sugar takes place, making it a very fermentable wort, leading to fuller yeast attenuation, lighter body, and drier finish. A longer mash duration (90 -120 min or more) helps with this too. On the other hand, the higher the temperature, the more unfermentable sugars remain, leading to less fermentable wort, lower attenuation (especially from certain historic English ale strains), fuller body, and more malty flavours and residual sweetness left behind. A relatively shorter mash duration (60 min or so) helps with this style.

For more in-depth explanation, read John Palmer's excellent How To Brew book, chapter 16, available here for free (you may just need to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius):
http://howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16.html

P.S. while I agree with you that classic German Pilsener malt benefits from a multistep mash, I've been told that your modern English Lager Malt is produced in such a way that it fully converts easily with a single temperature, and that it's therefore just as convenient as Maris Otter or other typical two-row base malts. So, once you find a single temperature you like, you can probably keep using it over and over for most grainbills.

[Rookie]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering;
as pale male isn't that much different from lager (pilsner) malt apart from the fact that pale malt can be mashed at a single temperature and lager malt needs a stepped infusion mash, what temperature and how long should I mash a pale malt at to use in a lager?
If I can quite happily use my pale malt in a lager but using the same method, apart from the mashing, then I'd be a happy brewer!

Many thanks in advance

There's no reason you can't use pale malt in a lager. Both work fine mashed at a single temperature. There may be some slight difference depending on the beer: good luck detecting the base grain in a double bock.

[Horatio]

From my experiences pale malt will be fine for a lager style beer. It's more to do with the yeast and fermenting temperature and then the lagering period that produces the results (above comments too); well for me it is anyway. Either way, experiment and create!

[Matt12398]

I think you'll struggle to find much difference in taste between pale malt and lager malt. You might notice a slightly lighter colour with the lager malt. I like to use it if I want to do a really pale ale or a blonde.

I'd say hats off to you for trying a lager early on because it's not an easy one to master.

I'd really recommend getting your hands on some brewing software such as Brewmate, Beersmith, etc. It will help you working out your volumes and help you avoid making that mistake again. I use Beersmith and it makes life a lot easier.

[grahamotter]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the quick responses, I would have noticed them sooner if I'd checked the box to notify me of any replies /

I'm really pleased that you all say I should happily get away with using the pale malt as a pilsner malt substitute as it saves the faffing around with the temperature stepped mashing method.

I'll give the next one a try as soon as I've got around 4-5 hours spare and the little people aren't demanding my attention to play with their train track or barbie dolls!!

I'll take a look at that Beersmith software too and see what it's all about

Thanks again, once again!

Kind regards,

Graham

[grahamotter]

Beer Smith - This is BRILLIANT!

A little complicated to start with and so many variables which are unknown to me at the moment and so a little off putting but using it as a guide to make my own recipe and staying within the style guide and then seeing step-by-step instructions based on all the ingredients I've put in - BRILLIANT!!

[Rookie]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the quick responses, I would have noticed them sooner if I'd checked the box to notify me of any replies /

I'm really pleased that you all say I should happily get away with using the pale malt as a pilsner malt substitute as it saves the faffing around with the temperature stepped mashing method.

You don't have to do a temperature stepped mash with modern pilsner malt.

[seymour]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the quick responses, I would have noticed them sooner if I'd checked the box to notify me of any replies /

I'm really pleased that you all say I should happily get away with using the pale malt as a pilsner malt substitute as it saves the faffing around with the temperature stepped mashing method.

You don't have to do a temperature stepped mash with modern pilsner malt.

That's true, of course, if you use Pilsener malt with a single step mash in a plain-ol' English ale recipe, it'll act just like any other base malt. But I get significantly higher mash efficiencies when I do step-mash traditional German Pilsener malt. I only bother when I'm intentionally aiming for a super light-bodied, "digestive" German or Belgian style, sorta the antithesis of a bready, full-bodied Bitter. It all comes down to what you're targeting.