Cider question - boil or not ?

[setmash]

Guys I have a fair few apple trees at home and Id like to have a crack at making a cider. Ive done a few AG now so the process seems fairly simple. I have a few questions howver:

1. The cider books dont mention boiling the juice prior to fermentation they recommend adding a a Campden tablet to kill bacteria, would of thought that wouldnt be enough. I know apple pulp juice has its own yeasts - I guess if i boil I will kill those. Any advice ?

2. Its recommended to ferment in a carboy with air lock under pressure,,,is this necessary or can i use my normal SS pot with just a lid on ?

Many thanks for any advice...

[6470zzy]

If you boil you will set the pectins in the juice and your cider will be hazy, you can use the campden tablets, I put one per gallon and then let them sit on the must for 24 hours before pitching the yeast. If you have a spare FV with rather than just a pot, I would use it

Cheers

[oldbloke]

2. Its recommended to ferment in a carboy with air lock under pressure,,,is this necessary or can i use my normal SS pot with just a lid on ?

Your SS pot will be fine.

[charlie]

I would vote for no boil, no campden, no added yeast and don't drink it before next spring.

So it really should be in a FV under an air lock.

And it's supposed to be cloudy.

[wilfh]

Cider is unlike beer in that you are making low alchol wine rather than beer. There is no need to boil the juice as it is much more acidic than beer and more inhospitable to nasties. That said it will pick up nasties just like beer and therfore under airlock is definately a better plan than just leaving it.

You definately don't need to boil as that will give cooked apple flavours (which taste a bit weird after fermentation).
You don't have to add campden either or use a packet yeast and that can give you a nice cider. As usual there is a but becuase there is not always the right yeasts and bacteria that you want and you increase the chances of an infection.
That is one way and the other extreeme is to add campden (one per gallon) and add a yeast to ferment as normal. A half way house is to give a half dose of campden tablets and and let it ferment on the wild yeasts. That is what I do and it gives the best results in my opinion.

A long slow ferment is always best prefferably in the cool (sub 10C) as the cider retains more aromatics.

Cider can be cloudy and clear although mostly its cloudy for the marketing of ye old cider from the west country peddled to the tourists who don't know any better, that tastes rank (but that's another story). Either way its not a measure for quality.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
wilf

[Brewbitz]

Hi guys.

Home made Cider never really tastes the same as you get in bottles, cans or from the farm shop. The main reason is the apples used. Most home brewers use the apples from the tree in the back garden which tends to be eaters or cookers. If you want an extra bit of tartness (which helps make the moth water), add a handfull of crab apples per 10lb of apples.

I personally love cider made with eaters. I once managed to get 100kg of Golden Delicious and made very nice cider akin to White Lightning only more powerful.

Just pulp your apples, squeeze them, put the juice in a bucket with a crushed campden tablet. Put it somewhere warm to bring it up to about 20C for 24 hours, this helps get the yeast going, then add your yeast (cider yeast seems to work best, but all purpost yeast will do, hell I've even used bread yeast before), now put it back in the warm place for 24 hours and then transfer it to somewhere cooler, say 15-18C. This makes the cider brew slower which in my opinion gives a better flavour. Leave it for a week to 10 days and then transfer it to another bucket once the cider has slowed down and the hydrometer is about 1.000 to 1.004. transfer into another bucket with 2oz (per gallon) sugar, mix and then bottle. Put back in the warm 20C place for 48 hours and then put somewhere cool for 3 weeks. Hey presto, lush fizzy cider. Then learn how to drink it responsibly!

If you live near Clarkes Village in Street, they have some cider apples and all the groundsman does is pick up the fallers and thows them away, so give him a shout and see if you can go and help him collect them.

[wilsoa11111]

just had a crack at this myself, didnt have the energy or facility to juice em, just bashed with a big stick and popped in a bucket- w airlock
i am currently growing up an old rosie starter to innoculate but it did start to ferment on its own so pannicked and lobbed a dose of campden in- its still going but slowly, hopefully will kill the nastys off

[kinnockthecat]

I'm cider pressing this week end, I usually let the juice run into clean and sanitized fermenters, and leave it to ferment with wild yeast. The juice starts to ferment quite quickly. I have airlocks in the too of the fermented and just leave them in the kitchen, checking the gravity from time to time, by February I rack it off the Lees and then again about 6 Weeks later. I tend to bottle mine using some carbonation drops. I use a mixture of cookers, eaters, crab and some pears.

[6470zzy]

And it's supposed to be cloudy.

Just curious, but are all of your Country wines cloudy?

Cheers

[oldbloke]

And it's supposed to be cloudy.

Well... I grew up in Zummerzet, and /some/ of it's supposed to be cloudy. Some of it isn't.

[critch]

everything youll ever need to know about cider is herehttp://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

that'll keep you busy for a bit

[oldbloke]

It's an excellent site.

Thing is there are at least as many styles of cider as there are of ale.
Saying "cider should be X" is as daft as saying "beer should be this particular shade of brown"

[setmash]

Thanks for all the advice...think Im going to put mine in Corny kegs as i have a lot of capacity, hopefully it will carbonate nicely.

[setmash]

One last question , do any of you add sugar to your cider to sweeten (i have a mix of mainly cider apples, some cookers and some eaters) and at what stage and how much - pre or post fermentation ?

My God the apple trees have really delivered, collected over 400Kg of apples already, reckon i have at least 2 to 3 tons of apples maybe a lot more lol,

[Hawkmoon1704]

I collected 150kg of apples from trees at work all sorts of mixed apples sweet and sour. I bought a press for 70quid off ebay. I minced the apples with the wifes food processor then pressed out the lovely golden juice. I managed to get 28lt i simply put a lid on it and let nature
take its course. No water no yeast no sugar nothing have i added to this brew. It has had a vigourous ferment for over a week and once this eased off i racked i off then put it in a pressure barrel with an air lock. Come spring il taste and maybe add some sugar then put the lid on and leave til early summer before drinking and it will be fizzy as well as clear. Try it this way with just one gallon and compare it to some made with campden tabs and bought yeast. I have also made pear cider this year the same way and im trying plum jerkum too. Pressing plum juice was hard work though best done in the wifes juicer lol