Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Get advice on making beer from raw ingredients (malt, hops, water and yeast)
Post Reply
greenxpaddy

Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by greenxpaddy » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:45 pm

I bumped into a commercial brewer today and he remarked how his Safale was getting him a 2 day fermentation turn around :shock:

That just seemed to me to be a crazy short ferment. I would have thought a massive overpitch too. I'm going to have a good taste of that beer when I see it again to see if it does indeed lack character.....

What do you think. Can you have a lightning ferment and make great beer?

phill71

Re: Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by phill71 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:58 pm

greenxpaddy wrote:I bumped into a commercial brewer today and he remarked how his Safale was getting him a 2 day fermentation turn around :shock:

That just seemed to me to be a crazy short ferment. I would have thought a massive overpitch too. I'm going to have a good taste of that beer when I see it again to see if it does indeed lack character.....

What do you think. Can you have a lightning ferment and make great beer?
Not too sure, but it's something I'd like to know also.
I pitched 1/2 jam jar of yeast kindly donated by a local micro into a dark mild OG1033 on Sat tea time. Fermented at 21c in fermenting fridge.

After top cropping this afternoon I measured the gravity at 1010. So I reckon this has pretty much finished fermenting in 2 days.

I know it's only a weak mild, and the amount of yeast pitched was pretty unscientific (i just chucked it all in), but there's no denying it got off to a flyer and churned through the ferment very quickly.

I'll crash cool tommorow before decanting to a corny in readiness for the inaugral testing of my newly acquired and refurbed beer engine...can't wait :D

User avatar
zgoda
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: Odp: Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by zgoda » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:22 am

You can get similar fermentation rate when you repitch all yeast from one brew to another. Recently massively overpitched US-05 started in 90 mins and finished from 1.053 to 1.014 in 3 days.

User avatar
orlando
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7201
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:22 pm
Location: North Norfolk: Nearest breweries All Day Brewery, Salle. Panther, Reepham. Yetman's, Holt

Re: Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by orlando » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:36 am

I've pondered this myself and I wonder whether the volumes involved is a factor, 25 litres is really small and we as home brewers probably under pitch more often than we think. Certainly a yeast becoming accustomed to the same wort can help and of course the slightly higher fermentation temps that classic Pale/Bitters are fermented at to get that estery profile its famous for. Probably not one thing but as Phill71 observed lower gravity worts in the 3.5 range, which a lot of beers are these days, helps reduce time too.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

AnthonyUK

Re: Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by AnthonyUK » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:01 am

The smaller commercial breweries (10bbl) I have spoken to have all said similar, for standard 4-5% beers anyway.
They are pitching the correct amount of yeast in the perfect conditions for a 5-7 day process from mash to bottle/keg.
The ability to quickly heat/cool the wort and beer is also necessary which is something we can replicate at home with a 'special' fridge.

Dave S
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:38 pm
Location: Wirral, Merseyside

Re: Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by Dave S » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:46 am

I made a Guinness clone last year using a WLP004 starter. It started and finished within 24 hours and tasted lovely. I did another one this Sunday, also with WLP004 and it too was fermenting vigorously by Monday. Don't know if it's finished yet, haven't checked.
Best wishes

Dave

greenxpaddy

Re: Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by greenxpaddy » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:32 pm

I'd suggest that a lot of ale is pretty similar these days because of commercial pressures. It's a harder job to pitch the exact quantity of healthy yeast needed for a characterful profile than simply chuck overkill level of yeast at wort and get a basic malt and hop soup.

Thinking back to my brewery tours i've been on I'm pretty impressed with the likes of Skinners and Black Sheep to be using open fermenters and liquid yeast. It takes a lot more effort. I can't see how dried yeast can really produce beer as tasty as a quality fresh liquid yeast. Still to be convinced that the ease of dried yeast doesn't sacrifice quality.

darkonnis

Re: Fast fermentation and affect on flavour

Post by darkonnis » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:27 pm

Being honest, I don't think there is much difference between dried yeast and liquid yeasts. There is a massive massive misconception (in my opinion) when it comes to this, people assume because it is liquid it "must be better". The reality is that some strains of yeast do not appreciate being dried and are not suitable for the process. Which is why liquid yeasts have such variety. A good example of this is Brewdog, they used an english yeast strain that was dry from what I gather as it is only recently that they've installed a lab and I don't imagine that they spent the huge quantity of money needed to get someone else to breed their yeast up for them for their giant fermenters.

I also think that ale is similar because lots of people are not trained brewers, most just fancy giving it a go and dive straight in which is fine but unless you live in a high density population area you can't afford to push the boat out with something a bit mental, that or you need one hell of a logistics structure which again is more than most people can manage and is rather daunting especially for a one man band.

Ultimately, I think its all about what you want. Everyone here swears by temperature control but I've seen a few breweries which alter how much yeast they add as opposed to temp control itself. But they're in business and in most cases doing alright so it obviously works for them. I guess thats the beauty of beer, you really can do it however the hell you like :)

Post Reply