How good can all grain get ?

[The keezer chiefs]

Hello,

Just a question for debate really, but how would a well made all grain recipe compare with a commercial equivalent ? i.e. if I keep going with my all grain, and learn more, what can I expect in terms of quality ?

[Pinto]

Hard to say really. Fair AG brews are the equal of commercial brews, whereas exceptional ones far surpass them due to your ability to pay attention to details and be uncompromising with process and ingredients in ways the commercial boys would find unviable.

Add to that the satisfacion of knowing it's all your own work....

[keith1664]

Like he said.

You're not constrained by time or economics and you can brew to your exact taste and not have to appeal to the general public.
Whether anyone else likes what you make is another thing

[GrowlingDogBeer]

Your beer will soon be better than most commercial beer you can buy.
I am so often disappointed now when I get a beer in a pub or buy a bottle. The stuff you make at home has so much more flavour and is generally better.

[Clibit]

My first all grain beer was an American stout, and I was completely taken aback cos it was better than any stout I'd had before. Home brew varies, not all my brews turn out great, but many do. A lot of pub beer is a let down. But I drink some excellent beer in pubs sometimes. The best pub beer is better than my own, but there is something I love about the hoppiness of my beer that I rarely get in pub beer. A raw hoppiness that I like. A lot of pub cask conditioned ale is a let down. But I was drinking in a bar on Friday where every pint was beautifully conditioned and it was a real joy, and worth the £3.20 a pint. I guess brewing and dispensing equipment are important. I have a pan, a bag and a bucket, bottles and a capper. So disadvantages. But the advantage of small scale and choice of ingredients.

[Eric]

It's harder to brew on a smaller scale using bits and bobs in a confined space than with purpose made, properly laid out kit.In time, with experience those disadvantages will lessen to allow your abilities and knowledge to show in the finished product.
Many breweries today are run by people who started like yourself, some of which produce very good beers. Others have been started with no brewing experience beyond doing a short brewing course and again can make very good beers. There is no reason why you can't produce beers to equal most of these products with your own equipment in a home environment. A lot of the information you need is already on this site.

[Jim]

If you consider the question 'can you cook a meal at home that's as good as the food you get in a restaurant' then you might get a better answer.

Maybe not as good as in the best restaurants run by gifted chefs, but almost certainly better than most chequered table cloth Italian restaurants. Home brew is similar - and just as dependant on getting hold of good quality fresh ingredients.

[Francois]

Been doing AG for about a year now, no changes in equipment at all, just learning curve improvements (sparge temps, water volumes, hop timings; standard trial and error stuff). Absolutely love it. For the deeper knowledge of beer (occasionally veering into downright geekery , for the money saving angle, and most of all the quality. Even the more uninspiring haphazardly-thrown-together brews I've done can still rival some of the stuff I've paid nigh on £4 for in a pub... And half the time you're looking at £2 for a bottle of commercial stuff from the supermarket at any rate, and there's a lot of dross out there.

Also with the vast array of recipes for clone brews on here and elsewhere, you don't even necessarily have to pick a side... you might not get a 100% accurate batch of Timothy Taylor or Wadworth (etc) but if you can do it for the cost of 30p-ish a pint and a couple of hours of fretting over a big boiling pot like some sort of mad druid, then I say you'd be silly not to

[Hairybiker]

+1 to everything said above.
Personally I prefer home/craft brewed beer over the commercial stuff all the time. Maybe 'cause I can't afford £3/pint
But with a properly aged brew it will be as good if not better than most stuff you would get in a pub. My problem is ageing it I usually find it gets to the excellent stage just as I have little left But got a few brews on last month and currently have 3 barrels full, so the later 2 will get 2-3 months ageing.

[barry44]

Your beer will soon be better than most commercial beer you can buy.
I am so often disappointed now when I get a beer in a pub or buy a bottle. The stuff you make at home has so much more flavour and is generally better.

This is pretty much it. Exactly how I feel

[lord groan]

I agree with everyone above, when I brewed good kit beers (Festival) I'd drink them and think 'thats really good' but a bottle of badger golden champion from the supermarket left me wondering how to do better. I've been AG for about 18 months to 2 years now and can honestly say every brew I've made has at least been as good as commercial bottled, but most taste better to me. I have now reached the point where I wonder why I liked some beers. Most commercial are not bottle conditioned and I think the treatment they get leaves a hard, blunt almost metallic aftertaste I hate. Sorry about the description I'm not good at describing flavours but hopefully you get the drift. Maybe its force-conditioning or pasteurisation or whatever it is they do but none of mine have ever tasted like that.

I'll be sticking with AG and trying to find recipes for my old favourites

[Hairybiker]

That's another thing with craft brewing, you can make your OLD favourites again. You don't have to hope the brewery will release it again. For me some of the old ales I used to enjoy will never be released again. Things like Younger's #3, or the 80's version of Ruddel's County (not the new version). That and if I fancy a strong beer then I can brew it, or if I want something a bit lighter than the commercial one I can do a clone that is lower in ABV.
For me, I normally brew to about 1050-55 I like higher ABV's at this time of year, but not to the 10+% that some get to. I like to enjoy several pints without falling over.

And of course you can make your own recipes up, play with hop combo's that the commercial brewers wouldn't use, or make something off the wall just 'cause you can.

[Padalac]

Depends what you mean by quality. Commercial breweries vary quite considerably in the quality of what they produce. As a homebrewer the quality of the product is only limited by your ingredients, process and your kit. In theory you can do pretty much anything a commercial brewery can do. In reality I suspect that commercial beer is more consistent - i.e they can create the same beer again and again with more consistent results than a homebrewer, but on the other hand, if you can get past the basics like sanitation, you are likely to produce something with a lot fuller and more interesting flavour than the majority of commercial beer.

And of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As people have said - if you create it yourself you have the possibility of making exactly how you want it, and adjust it to your own personal taste.

[Kev888]

With some experience and adequate facilities, I would fully expect your beer to become better than most mass-produced commercial beers. Its also reasonable to hope that they will compete with decent commercial craft/micro-type beers in quality and (if you wish) to exceed them in being tailored towards your own personal preferences. Though it is much harder to achieve such high levels of consistency or to closely emulate other/existing beers and flavours than it is to simply brew good beer, so it partly depends what you're chasing.

Though its all down to preference and perception, and one persons improvement may not be another's. I suspect on at least one occasion a homebrewer wasn't reaping the rewards because, fundamentally, they didn't happen to like the qualities of craft/traditional beer.

Cheers
kev

[The keezer chiefs]

Thanks Guys, much appreciated.