Lagering...discuss...

[Rick_UK]

Chaps

I've made quite a few true lagers and lager like ales (is that a Steam Beer?) fermented at 14-15C. All have been lagered to varying degrees at around 3-4'C from anywhere between 2 weeks and 8 weeks. To be honest my taste buds can't percieve any difference between those lagered for 2 weeks compared to 8 weeks. I understand the theory that the cool temps drop any traces of yeast and quell any unwanted esters and other unwanted yeast flavours, I would just question how long is really necessary. I would suggest that 90% of the flavour profile from the yeast is set during the cool fermentation and after a couple of weeks of lagering any further changes will be very negligible.

Is the 8-12 weeks extended lagering philosophy largely a historical process that purists like to maintain and do modern lager breweries really have their working capital tied up for 8-12 weeks lagering?

I have read on other forums and blogs of homebrewers who have skipped lagering completely with only a slightly noticable difference in taste/smoothness.

Given my views and experiences above I would be interested to hear what brewers on here thought and what experiences you have had with lagering? My proposal would be that unless you want to make a very light and smooth lager (Budweiser...shudder!) it is not necessary to lager for more than 2 weeks. I do accept my tastebuds are more attuned to ales though!

Rick

[Charles1968]

It can take that long to drop out chill-haze compounds, but most commercial lager brewers use cold filtering rather than true lagering these days. If you're happy with a bit of chill haze you can condition at a higher temperature for a much quicker turnaround.

[chris.laws.54943]

I am also interested to hear what guys here have to say. My first AG bohemian Pilsner is in FV2 in the fridge. After a week (of course I tasted it!!!) it is 90% clear and tastes delightful. I'll give it at least another week but I wondered if it will lager down more once in bottles stored in the garage anyway? Fridge is 4c garage roughly 9-10c at the mo.

[Rick_UK]

I am also interested to hear what guys here have to say. My first AG bohemian Pilsner is in FV2 in the fridge. After a week (of course I tasted it!!!) it is 90% clear and tastes delightful. I'll give it at least another week but I wondered if it will lager down more once in bottles stored in the garage anyway? Fridge is 4c garage roughly 9-10c at the mo.

Again purists will say it conditions better in bulk but I will go out on a limb and say it probably makes little or no difference other than possibly a small amount of extra sediment in bottles. You could bottle a few now and leave the rest for a few more weeks to see if there is any difference...

Rick

[Charles1968]

If you have any diacetyl you'll definitely notice an improvement in flavour as it lagers. Also the beer will get crisper as the last few points of gravity attenuate out. Having said that, all that will happen a lot quicker if you condition at higher temperature.

[Rick_UK]

If you have any diacetyl you'll definitely notice an improvement in flavour as it lagers. Also the beer will get crisper as the last few points of gravity attenuate out. Having said that, all that will happen a lot quicker if you condition at higher temperature.

Would a diacetyl rest at 18'C for 2-3 days near the end if fermentation not get rid of it all? Also would fining and crash cooling achieve the same results as chill filtering? That said I've never been arsed about a bit of chill haze!

Rick

[Charles1968]

If you have any diacetyl you'll definitely notice an improvement in flavour as it lagers. Also the beer will get crisper as the last few points of gravity attenuate out. Having said that, all that will happen a lot quicker if you condition at higher temperature.

Would a diacetyl rest at 18'C for 2-3 days near the end if fermentation not get rid of it all? Also would fining and crash cooling achieve the same results as chill filtering? That said I've never been arsed about a bit of chill haze!

Rick

Diacetyl: in theory yes, but I've found it can linger for a couple of weeks. I've tried crash chilling and fining but at 4 Celsius, which proved too warm. You need to fine or filter at freezing point to get rid of chill haze. It makes more sense to try and prevent it with good practice, eg mash pH control, Irish moss & quick chill after the boil. Then live with the small amount of haze that gets through, even if it doesn't look impressive in a lager.

[london_lhr]

Hi all,

here is a very interesting take on lagering and clear beer......

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Barry.

[chris.laws.54943]

Cheers Rick!

[Thorbz]

I tried the method outlined on the brulosophy site with a recent lager, and it worked a treat. I don't think I'll be using the traditional method of lagering again.

[Aleman]

I've been using the Pitch big and cool technique for a few years now, but because of my process and available time gaps to do beery things, I don't get to try it as soon as it goes into kegs, but normally 4 or 5 weeks from brewing. . . . Yeah It works, and works well, I also drop the temp to around -1C which helps with chill proofing, especially when adding polyclar 730 Plus just before crashing the temp.

[Rick_UK]

Hi all,

here is a very interesting take on lagering and clear beer......

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Barry.

Nice one Barry, very affirming! I will implement this method with my next lager though I think I have done a similar process with my current one but more by chance than design!

I think the point about traditional long layering methds being a historical hangover from days before temperature control is a particularly valid one one.

Rick

[Charles1968]

According to the BYO article below, the world's best selling lager spends 1 week in primary and 3 weeks lagering. Other lagers are even quicker.

http://byo.com/issues/item/870-how-do-c ... so-quickly

Long lagering does look like an old German tradition from pre-filtering days.

I like this counter-intuitive tip from the article:

"Another way to increase yeast contact with beer is to use non-flocculent yeast. Although this makes clarification difficult, it does accelerate the aging process. "

So use a slow clearing yeast for faster turnaround.

[Rick_UK]

Update:

Don't think I'll be using lager yeast again! Lager is now ready to drink in 4 weeks from grain to glass. Schedule as follows:
-Fermented for 10 days with US05 at 14'C
-3 days at 18'C at FG -5 points
-1 week 'lagering'/ crash cooling at 3'C
-Bottled and 1 week at 21'C to carbonate

Tastes every bit as crisp and clean as previous lagers that have spent 2 months at 3'C.

QED....

Rick

[Thorbz]

How much yeast did you pitch ?