larger mash

[toplad]

just wondered why the difference in mash times for a larger to ale, iam using dave lines book as referance.

[delboy]

As far as i know the mash time is similar unless of course you want to start doing protein rests etc (which supposedly aren't required with the modern malt we use nowadays.

[Seveneer]

I use the same 90 minute single temperature infusion mash for lagers as I do for bitters.

/Phil.

[BigEd]

Like the others said there isn't really any difference unless you are getting into multi-rest or decoction mashes.

[toplad]

no probs i will try a standard 90 min mash, however dave line says to start at a lower temp for 30 min then increase to 67c for 90 mins. just wondered if there was a chemical reason to alter the process.

[BigEd]

no probs i will try a standard 90 min mash, however dave line says to start at a lower temp for 30 min then increase to 67c for 90 mins. just wondered if there was a chemical reason to alter the process.

Yes there is depending on the raw materials used for the grist and the style of beer being brewed. Higher protein malts sometimes used to produce mass market lagers (i.e. 6-row malt in American mega beers) can benefit from a multi-temp mash to degrade protein compounds. Traditional Continental beers like Pilsners and Munich styles are still sometimes brewed using the decoction mash. If you are just starting out and using modern malts you can produce a good lager with a single infusion mash.

[toplad]

thanks big ed

[Aleman]

Larger mashes, had to be longer to cope with the 'poor quality' malt of the time. The decoction mash helped to get usable extract from steely malt, and even today I find it to produce a higher efficiency. It does take a longer time though (When the brewers at Plzen were doing it properly a mash could take 12 hours!!)

[Aleman]

Then you needed to take into account the three hour boil as well

[Frothy]

Generic lagers are typically very simple with a single hop addition at the start of the brew and a single malt - pilsner. In reality to achieve a characteristic lager flavour which is subtle yet distinct you need your characteristic lager yeast and to control fermentation and maturation precisely to control the yeasts metabolism 8-13oc for primary fermentation and then lagering (maturing with live yeast still present) at 0-4oc for anything from 6-12weeks (commercial lager manufacturers have somehow reduced this to 2 weeks.) I think that a decoction mash may be very important in the style and will be trying one out shorty to see.

Frothy

[delboy]

I personally belive that a decoction mash may be very important in the style and will be trying one out shorty to see.
Frothy

Thats one brewday im really going to be interested in, be sure and document it all well frothy, im hoping to learn by your mistakes

[Frothy]

Thanks Del - it's going to be messy! I can't help but think a decoction mash will taste different to a single infusion or even a stepped mash.

[delboy]

The thing that concerns me about the process is getting full conversion after boiling up quite a large proportion of the mash (and denaturing the enzymes).

Another thing i don't get is do you boil up the grains as well (surely a big no no) or do you volaruf as usual to get it reasonably clear before boiling?

Does anyone know any really good books about lagers/decoctions etc.

[toplad]

going to try my first ag lager at the weekend, think i will leave thwe mash for a long as i can .

[delboy]

going to try my first ag lager at the weekend, think i will leave thwe mash for a long as i can .

90 mins should be fine, what yeast and fermentation conditions are you going to use.
Anyway have a good one this weekend.