Calcium Carbonate source

[brewboy4]

So i have been all grin brewing for a while now but never treated my water. i am currently buying the salts etc at the moment but i need some calcium carbonate & sodium bicarbonate. Could i just use normal chalk and baking soda?

i assume you just add this to the mash or do you add it to the sparge water too?

cheers.

[Aleman]

Forget calcium carbonate it won't dissolve and is pointless using . . .Sodium or potassium bicarbonate is a better option . . . Just make sure that you actually do have to raise your alkalinity

[brewboy4]

This was based on the beer smith calculations ,to achieve Burton water for a pale ale .The addition was:

22g gypsum
13g Epsom salts
1g calcium chloride
5g baking soda
4.1g chalk

My water profile in ppm is:
pH: 7.2
Ca:17.0
Mg: 2.7
Na: 6.4
SO4: 21.0
Cl:10
HCO3: 50
CO3: 25

From what i have read i would need to add this to achive the hardness to express the hops flavour more? how will this effect my pH for enzyme activity in the mash?

[Aleman]

The sulphate from the gypsum and epsom salts will improve your hop presence. . . .and the calcium and magnesium from those will improve your hardness . . . magnesium also is a co factor in hop utilisation as well so that is a good thing.

For a pale ale you need an alkalinity (HCO3) of 50 or less so without treatment for this you are on the upper range, but not excessively so, if adding chalk actually did something then you would increase the alkalinity which is not desired . . .which also means drop the baking soda.

The recommendations from beer smith and other authors / software is down to trying to follow a 'published' profile for a particular water region without actually understanding what it is that made that water so good for brewing. It's the wrong way to go IMO, as there is no certainty that the brewers actually brewed with the water in the profile.

So I would drop the chalk and baking soda and increase the calcium chloride to something like 5-7g . . .you need something to counteract the sulphate

[brewboy4]

Thanks for the input , i have been looking at it all the wrong way around.
Please correct me if this is wrong but i should base my mineral additions on my water profile and desired type of beer and not my desired water profile.

I have now created my desired pale ale water profile as oppose to trying to recreate Burton water.

so do i add these mineral to the grain at the start of the mash?

how do i then bring the mash in to pH range, lactic acid?

[Aleman]

Thanks for the input , i have been looking at it all the wrong way around.
Please correct me if this is wrong but i should base my mineral additions on my water profile and desired type of beer and not my desired water profile.

I have now created my desired pale ale water profile as oppose to trying to recreate Burton water.

It just makes sense to me to create a water profile based on the flavours I want to develop in the beer I'm brewing rather than some, potentially wrong, regional water profile . . . Pale ale has actually been successfully brewed throughout the UK not just at Burton. These pale ales were popular where sold, although the flavour profile may well be different. With the emphasis coming from the published literature and the web, to use low mineral content liquor to brew beer we are loosing sight of the fact that regional differences exist in beer flavours across the world, and become used to homogenised dull bland flavours . . . if I wanted that I'd drink Bud!

so do i add these mineral to the grain at the start of the mash?

That is the way Murphy's recommend to do it, personally I add it to the mash liquor . . . in fact I normally add 2/3 to the mash liquor, and 1/3 to the boiler before running off the sweet wort

how do i then bring the mash in to pH range, lactic acid?

If you have you alkalinity correct for the style of beer you are brewing then you don't need to worry about your mash pH it will naturally fall in the correct range for mashing (5.2 to 5.8, ideally 5.4 to 5.6) . . . . if it doesn't this time then don't panic, but work out what you need to change the next time you brew it.

[Eric]

Burton beers were renown for their quality, a quality that without doubt was due to a great degree upon the mineral present in the water. That does not mean that some published analysis will provide the perfect water to produce a beer of that style. What it does need is liquor with plenty of calcium and sulphate and that magnesium and chloride in those sort of proportions were important too. You don't need the published level level of alkalinity for any pale beer and I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to add it to your first venture into darker beers until after you have tasted it and taken measurements. You might just need a good pinch of sodium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate in only the mash.

From my perspective, get your calcium level up towards 200ppm and put some magnesium in too. You want mostly sulphate but don't totally overlook chloride else it can become a little dry. Use a yeast that attenuates well and avoid high mash temperatures and short mash periods. I'd very much agree that in this case the salt additions should be split between mash and sparge.

[brewboy4]

Thanks for all the help guys, where is the best place to buy these salts?

[Eric]

Local homebrew shop or eBay, for gypsum and Epsom salts.

[rpt]

Epsom salts are easily bought at the local chemist.