Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

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themadhippy
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by themadhippy » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:34 pm

Why does it have to be <3.5%ABV (4% absolute tops)? Because that's what Mild Ale is.
someone better tell sarah hughes they been doing it wrong
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by An Ankoù » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:18 pm

For what it's worth, my understanding, probably apocryphal, is that mild was the preferred drink of steelworkers who, after a shift slaving over their various blast furnaces and Bessemer converters (O Level chemistry circa 1970) needed to rehydrate with something vaguely tasteful that they could neck down by the gallon. Anyway, that's why, in the days when we did steel, the stuff was weak and watery, but tasted of something other than the reek of Hades.
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Muttonchops » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:20 pm

OK, OK. I concede on the 'Pale Mild Ales' and have looked around for other examples. They are relatively uncommon until the whole modern trend for 'Golden Ales' kicks in and muddies the waters, but I'm absolutely not going to go that way. Pale Mild Ales exist and I'll doff me flat cap and plead for forgiveness. As a penance I may even try to brew one. It's a very attractive prospect but unfortunately Thames water is rather lime-rich and, without excessive adjustment which I don't like doing, is more suited to darker beers.

Nothing comes from nothing and I have no doubt that as brewers developed what would come to be defined and marketed as Mild Ale were building on beers they were already brewing, whether Porters or Pale Ales. And I know that 'Mild' was a term used increasingly in the latter part of the 19th century, but not in any well defined way beyond 'unaged beer'. I'm not sure that folk migrated from porters to mild ales so much as they got 'nudged' by big breweries and Government policies. But to get the body and flavour into a low gravity beer brewers needed more than was available to them in the 19th century. The emerging malting processes provided that, particularly with crystal malt in its various guises. Having said that, I have an inkling that Chevallier malt would make an exceptionally good Pale Mild Ale, but that would not be historically correct for a 20th century beer. But then, are we brewing it for the history or for the flavour? Is a really great tasting beer diminished by the fact that it has no historical precedent? These are, of course, rhetorical questions.

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Muttonchops » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:41 pm

themadhippy wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:34 pm
Why does it have to be <3.5%ABV (4% absolute tops)? Because that's what Mild Ale is.
someone better tell sarah hughes they been doing it wrong
I have no doubt that the Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild Ale is an excellent pint and I would very much like to try it (and will do so one day). If they have got anything wrong at all it is only in including 'Mild' in the name. But then, what's in a name, it's what's in the glass that matters!

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:31 am

themadhippy wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:34 pm
Why does it have to be <3.5%ABV (4% absolute tops)? Because that's what Mild Ale is.
someone better tell sarah hughes they been doing it wrong
I don't think "Muttonchops" is interested in Mild Ale stronger than 3.5% because that's what he wants and what he thinks "Mild" has to be and has always been. Or else it isn't Mild. And to hell with all this history stuff, because "history" was crap at school and it's crap now. The title of this thread is obviously a misprint and can be ignored?

He's a newbie. I expect he feels he needs to make his mark. (I just wish he'd picked a different thread).



This thread was getting a bit gangling anyway, I think I'll kick off a couple of new threads covering Porter plus Stout, and Mild separately. Meanwhile I have been working on my contrived brown malt to go in an early Victorian recipe (low in black malt, moderate in traditional brown malt, and Chevallier barley pale malt which by 1830-1840 should be getting common?). I'll also be looking for an early dark mild recipe that contains tiny amounts of brown and black malt like a mini porter - all wrong, wrong, wrong, but I know they exist!
f00b4r wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:12 am
Watch this space...
I’ve been talking with Fuggledog and have some info from him on making historic malts, how they taste and even a video of him making some. It might change your mind on making some versus trying to recreate some, although a side by side comparison would let you know how your thoughts compare.
And I'll be waiting for this! 'Tis all well and good having a "contrived" formula for brown malt, but I've still to know what the real stuff is like. 8)
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:54 am

An Ankoù wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:18 pm
For what it's worth, my understanding, probably apocryphal, is that mild was the preferred drink of steelworkers who, after a shift slaving over their various blast furnaces and Bessemer converters (O Level chemistry circa 1970) needed to rehydrate with something vaguely tasteful that they could neck down by the gallon. Anyway, that's why, in the days when we did steel, the stuff was weak and watery, but tasted of something other than the reek of Hades.
Do you find you need to rehydrate your steelworker or do you get away with just sprinkling them on the wort surface?
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:20 am

You know what? Sod these Bessemer Converters, I'll stick to mashing in my Grainfather ...
bessemer_blowing.jpg
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Trefoyl » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:30 am

I don’t know why Foobar didn’t post Fuggledog’s video. It’s very short but long enough to show his process
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:35 pm

Trefoyl wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:30 am
I don’t know why Foobar didn’t post Fuggledog’s video. It’s very short but long enough to show his process
Thanks very much!

I had hoped "Fuggledog" used a shortcut method (which he does, using pale malt as a starting point) as I didn't fancy making my own "green" malt. Shortcutting the initial kilning of green malt means you at least start with the required enzymes.

But I'm disappointed that he ignores any "stewing" during the kilning. My own contrived method ensures there are Munich malts and crystal malts to emulate the formation of melanoidin and caramel components. These would have been important elements in traditional diastatic brown malt creating the flavour and colour. Perhaps dampening the pale malt ahead of extended kilning? My "Malting at Home" (Francois Dyment) book does include instructions to create crystal malt from steeped pale malt (apparently, the pale malt already has reduced enzymatic activity due to its kilning, so longer kilning times are in order),
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by f00b4r » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:52 pm

Trefoyl wrote:I don’t know why Foobar didn’t post Fuggledog’s video. It’s very short but long enough to show his process
I was going to along with quite a long bit of background and info by him - house building, home schooling, etc stuff has got in the way but it is coming soon. The links to Ed’s stuff also got dig out by Peebee but there is still stuff to add to the debate.

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Trefoyl » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:54 pm

Here is the link to Fuggledog’s thread. Apologies if it was already posted in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43948
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by McMullan » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:23 pm

someone better tell sarah hughes they been doing it wrong
A nice example of the ‘fallacy of incomplete evidence’. Or ‘cherry picking’ as it’s known generally. It hardly challenges what’s been offered as one of the main themes, by those who seem to have a clue, does it?

I usually make a Mild ale as the first brew in a series, to maximise yeast for repitching. In fact, I’ll be brewing one this Friday. It’s going to be ready, bright and conditioned, within about 7 days or so. Mainly because it’s going to be a post-WW1 Mild recipe; i.e., wort with a relatively low OG. Lower than starter wort actually :?: I haven’t decided on an exact recipe yet, but, whilst considering the many options available (thanks to the efforts from those who have a clue about interpreting historical brewery logs) I remain convinced the statement Mild Ale [as we know it] was not brewed before WWI holds true.
I think I'll kick off a couple of new threads covering Porter plus Stout, and Mild separately.
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:09 pm

I have to admit my shock at seeing the low alcohol levels of UK ales. On this side of the pond anything less than about 4.5% ABV would be almost unheard of.
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:13 pm

Trefoyl wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:54 pm
Here is the link to Fuggledog’s thread. Apologies if it was already posted in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43948
Nope. I've read a few "Fuggledog" threads in this forum but not that one. All my worries blabbed out about that earlier video post get righted. More stuff from Graham. What's not to like?

I'll grub about these Fuggledog posts a bit more, this is obviously going somewhere. Thanks.



======================================================================================================

I'll need to think carefully of the best yeast to use in these old recipes. I've heard this Kveik stuff is pretty good ... :twisted:


:wall
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Eric » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:26 pm

An absolutely wonderful thread PeeBee. I thoroughly commend your efforts to unravel some history of British brewing that is so comprehensibly misinterpreted by too many. I hope the following is of sufficient definition to be read. It is from volume 1 of The Noted Breweries of Great Britain and Ireland by Alfred Barnard, It was published in 1890 and the page is from a chapter on the Tyne Brewery in Newcastle.
Mild.jpg
In those days, beer was regional or even local and brewers didn't keep up with BJCP guidelines. In my early drinking days, none of the local beers were called Mild, they all had names like Sampson, Exhibition, IPA, Strongarm, XXXX, Special, but we asked for them as Best, Ordinary or Scotch. A funny thing about this is, possibly a third of those would today qualify as Mild as defined by BJCP.
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