What's going on?

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Meatymc
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What's going on?

Post by Meatymc » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:21 am

Did my standard IPA recipe on Monday (the advantage of working from home!) pitching a 1.5L starter using a scavenged yeast at tea-time. Starter/Scavenge also standard procedure. Krausen was up by 7am yesterday although pretty this as you might expect. Another 24 hours later it's gone completely other than a thin outer ring on the side of the bin. There is no noticeable activity whatsoever. Taken a sample out of the fermenter and sg is 1020 from a post-boil reading of 1042 - in less than 36 hours?????

There is no off-smell or taste but after the sample has sat for an hour on my desk - in the hope I'd see some activity, it has clearly split into 2 distinct layers - 'watery' on top and 'murkier' beneath. Trying to add an image but I get:

ERROR It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image. Please verify that the URL you entered is correct.

Just a JPEG email from my phone to my PC but can't seem to get around this nor see how/were to 'verify'.

Any ideas on what is going on and what action, if any, I should/can take?

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Eric
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Eric » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:45 am

1042 to 1020 in 36 hours is not unusual. Below is an extract from the brew log of a commercial brewery showing a 1040 brew from the evening of July 19th to be 1018 on the morning of July 21st.
B1.JPG
However, stopping at 1020 and stratifying is definitely not the norm. I'd give it a rouse and take another reading in the morning.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Meatymc » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:05 pm

Cheers Eric. I did give it a damned good talking to this morning so will check again tomorrow.

Don't normally bother checking the fermenter until at least the end of week 1 but was bottling up[ a previous 'scavenge' and could see through the plastic all didn't seem well.

Just thinking over process etc and realised I've had less activity in the previous 2 brews although both got to 1010 and 1009 respectively. The only common factor with the 3 is trying a Crisp extra pale MO rather than the usual Crisp MO - simply to get a lighter colour finish.

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Eric
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Eric » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:37 pm

What yeast are you using? It is usual for yeast health to decline while repeatedly pitched, but they suffer more during wet storage. They also become contaminated, not all that's collected is necessarily yeast and that which is might not be all the strain pitched. Different yeasts will often respond better to different regimes. Nutrients can play a vital part and most tap waters will provide more essential minerals than RO or low mineral bottled waters.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the malt, it will likely be of a very similar malting process with less kilning, which I wouldn't think could cause any deprivation.

I check fermenting wort as frequently as other activities allow. Basically I mostly open ferment with British heavy top fermenting yeasts that respond to or require frequent rousing to avoid all the yeast that has risen out of the wort from flocculating and cause fermentation to slow significantly. All that said, what you describe does sound like the yeast is failing, so if you intend keeping this batch, it could be worth taking just a small sample and growing a new starter in several small steps.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Meatymc » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:14 pm

Eric wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:37 pm
What yeast are you using?
This one was only a 2nd generation scavenge from a CML5 - Cross My Loof in Glasgows SO5 take-off. Theirs certainly doesn't behave anywhere near as vigorously as a true SO5 but I've had some good recent results from theirs including a Mosaic IPA that is frankly the best beer I have ever brewed. I suspect however that as I do a heavy dry hop that may well be masking some 'lack of performance' on my process as a whole - I'm yet to brew a bitter I'm truly happy with for example although my porters are spot on.

Of course, being a Yorkshireman, being able to buy 5xCML '5' at least 60% less than 5xSO-05 everywhere else is a bonus plus they don't charge postage, like a bit of banter and are very helpful. Their hops are also very well priced with the same free postage so what's not to like. As is probably very obvious by now, I'm predominantly a heavy hopped IPA man at heart.

Fingers crossed there will be something positive to report in the morning!

Thanks again.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Eric » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:38 pm

Never tried CML yeast, but read many good reports on forums. Used US05 once only, to record the brew being a waste of good malt and hops. However, it wasn't intended to be a hop monster, so can't fairly say how it might perform if one was the object.

Yes, the cost of yeast is important, it's easy to forget the expense it adds to a brew, not just in the price, but any starter production and storage costs. Hopefully it will get the job done in a day or so.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by MashBag » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:04 am

What SG were you expecting it to finish at?
How's it taste?

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Meatymc » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:53 am

Eric wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:45 am
I'd give it a rouse and take another reading in the morning.
Sound advice Eric. Still no visible signs of activity but we're down to 1015 so dropped another 5 points overnight. Given this is brew 102 I thought I'd a handle on what I'm doing but clearly, from whatever combination of events, things happen differently some times.
MashBag wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:04 am
What SG were you expecting it to finish at?
How's it taste?
Target OG was 1043 with it coming in at 1042. Target FG is 1010 although I usually come in slightly lower than that. Taste is somewhat non-descript malt-wise but this is a very simple grain bill (86% extra pale MO, 10% Munich and 3% Wheat) and we're only on day 3 post-boil. A little aroma there from post boil Citra/Cascade but the emphasis will be a 50g Galaxy/50g Citra dry-hop if I can get it where I want it.

Will keep a close eye on this one from here on in but it looks as though it may be OK.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by MashBag » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:29 pm

Will keep a close eye on this one from here on in but it looks as though it may be OK.
I think you are right. No bad tastes and not over sweet.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Meatymc » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:46 pm

Just thought I'd update on this one - something I tend to forget to do!

Ended up at 1012 so at least 2 points off where I'd hope to have been but not terminal.

Resisted the intended 100g dry hop and went for just 50g Citra at 8C for 4 days then dropped to 2C for longer than usual - 7days - for no other reason than convenience.

Bottled today and whilst its not going to win any prizes - marginally below par for my usual IPA's, given a few weeks conditioning I think this is drinkable at the very least and, based on part bottle sample, perhaps much better than that!

My worry has been a distinct drop in fermentation activity in a couple of recent brews but I'm now thinking this maybe the CML yeasts. Brewed a Talus IPA last weekend using a 2nd generation scavenged PJ yeasts starter and off like a rocket.

Live and learn as they say.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by MashBag » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:05 pm

Meatymc wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:14 pm
Eric wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:37 pm
What yeast are you using?
This one was only a 2nd generation scavenge from a CML5 - Cross My Loof in Glasgows SO5 take-off. Theirs certainly doesn't behave anywhere near as vigorously as a true SO5 but I've had some good recent results from theirs including a Mosaic IPA that is frankly the best beer I have ever brewed. I suspect however that as I do a heavy dry hop that may well be masking some 'lack of performance' on my process as a whole - I'm yet to brew a bitter I'm truly happy with for example although my porters are spot on.

Of course, being a Yorkshireman, being able to buy 5xCML '5' at least 60% less than 5xSO-05 everywhere else is a bonus plus they don't charge postage, like a bit of banter and are very helpful. Their hops are also very well priced with the same free postage so what's not to like. As is probably very obvious by now, I'm predominantly a heavy hopped IPA man at heart.

Fingers crossed there will be something positive to report in the morning!

Thanks again.
I like CML hops and it makes a brilliant single hop cascade IPA, but it still seems better with saf-ale yeast. Thought the CML yeast was a bit "snow globe" in the bottle.

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Meatymc
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Meatymc » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:29 am

MashBag wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:05 pm
I like CML hops and it makes a brilliant single hop cascade IPA, but it still seems better with saf-ale yeast. Thought the CML yeast was a bit "snow globe" in the bottle.
Tend to agree.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by MuckyFunster » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:56 pm

When I saw “what’s going on” I figured this would be a thread for posts of an odds and sods nature. Is there such a thread already?


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