Infection woes - sour/tart taste

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M3Brewery
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Infection woes - sour/tart taste

Post by M3Brewery » Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:50 pm

Hello All,

Having sour/tart taste in all grain brews after approx 1 week of conditioning, the beer is hazy and never clears. These are 60-70litre brews using stainless steel HLT, Mash Tun, Boiler and fermentation vessels. Fermented beer is stored in Corni kegs. We use a water pump/meter with plastic hoses.
The Mash Tun has a false bottom/grain filter. The boiler has a hop filter.
We use a copper pipe cooling coil and immerse it into the boiler.
HLT and Boiler have sight glasses for measuring and taps to transfer liquor, must to different vessels.
Cleaning regime is to use WVP cleaner/steriliser soaking for 10-20 mins and domestic cleaning pads.

Questions:
Is WVP a sufficient cleaner to use on its own?
Do we need to cover the boiler to stop wild yeast/ infections?
Do we need to use a cloth to cover the fermentation vessel as well as the metal lid?
Can an infection get into the brew before the boil

Thanks

M3

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Eric
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Re: Infection woes - sour/tart taste

Post by Eric » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:54 pm

Neither hazy beer that doesn't clear nor sour/tart taste aren't necessarily caused by infection. Correctly brewed beer usually clears given time.

What happens to the beer after 2,3,4 or 5 weeks conditioning?

WVP used as instructed will sanitise clean vessels and brewing equipment, but does need rinsing in clean water to remove any excess.

The boiler should be open to allow unwanted volatiles to escape. Wild yeast infection is unlikely unless the pitched yeast is in very poor health or contaminated. No yeast will survive the boil.

I and many others open ferment and with good sanitation and pitching enough healthy yeast it is possible to brew without risk of infection.

All equipment used up to and including the boil need to be perfectly clean, but need not be sanitised. All equipment used from the end of the boil must be sanitary and uncontaminated,

A brief description of how you mash, sparge and boil with times and measurements would help diagnosis.

What yeast is used and how long does fermentation take before transferring to keg.

Is your water treated for brewing?
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

WallyBrew
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Re: Infection woes - sour/tart taste

Post by WallyBrew » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:05 am

M3Brewery wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:50 pm

HLT and Boiler have sight glasses for measuring and taps to transfer liquor, must to different vessels.
I can see why people put these things on, I have one on my HLT, but why put one on your boiler? A simple calibrated dipstick does the job and avoids the possibility of that small volume of wort never getting to boiling [unless you can circulate through it somehow] and just sitting there growing bacteria which at a later date may cause problems.

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MashBag
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Re: Infection woes - sour/tart taste

Post by MashBag » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:41 am

I think we need to understand fermentation in detail.

Fermentation kit - what was it cleaned with & When? What yeast? what form?
Starter or sprinkled?
Temp? Recipe? Grain in the fermentation?
Krausen? How quickly did it start?
Location? Did it finish as expected? Etc etc

If this is the first time soured - what has changed?

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PeeBee
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Re: Infection woes - sour/tart taste

Post by PeeBee » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:25 am

WallyBrew wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:05 am
M3Brewery wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:50 pm

HLT and Boiler have sight glasses for measuring and taps to transfer liquor, must to different vessels.
I can see why people put these things on, I have one on my HLT, but why put one on your boiler? A simple calibrated dipstick does the job and avoids the possibility of that small volume of wort never getting to boiling [unless you can circulate through it somehow] and just sitting there growing bacteria which at a later date may cause problems.
Na, had one on my boiler for years and not had a problem …

But it's always caused niggling doubts. After WallyBrew translates "niggling doubt" into black and white apocalyptic description, I'm now overwhelmed by a sense of panic! I wonder if I've got the bits to plug the hole and exorcize the flippin' thing?
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

guypettigrew
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Re: Infection woes - sour/tart taste

Post by guypettigrew » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:14 am

Everything everyone else has said above.

My additional initial thoughts are; over sparging, leaving the beer too long before racking from the fermenter and the premises you're brewing in. Plus, how long after pitching your yeast do you see signs of fermentation?

If you're brewing in a building which could be a source of wild yeasts and/or rogue bacteria then you need the fermentation to get off to a fast start before the 'invaders' can get a hold.

As to a sight glass on your boiler, best to do without it. A calibrated dipstick, as WB says, is best.

Guy

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Re: Infection woes - sour/tart taste

Post by f00b4r » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:00 am

M3Brewery wrote:
We use a water pump/meter with plastic hoses.
o the brew before the boil
In addition to what the others on that thread have added:

- You can try breaking your process down to find where the likely contamination is, e.g. do a test fermentation with a cheap kit so that you are only using the cold side kit; this eliminates a large part of your gear (unless you have multiple points of contamination).
- Can you clarify what you meant by the water pump/meter? Are you e.g. using hosepipe to move “clean” water to a garage or similar and is this water being used post boil?

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