Should I get a Mill?

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MashBag
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Should I get a Mill?

Post by MashBag » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:24 pm

I am in two minds about a mill.

I can easily buy everything crushed and a good one is a north of £200.

So can a taste a £200 difference?

Did a mill improve your beers?

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vacant
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by vacant » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:42 pm

You're thinking about freshness? These days I pay £3 extra to get my 25Kg in 5x5Kg sealed bags and I can't say anyone who has drunk my beer has noticed any difference since I started buying it that way. I've always bought crushed and I get through two sacks per year, at worst the grain was crushed six months ago. I pay the bagging fee mostly for the convenience, i.e. building my 35 ltr brew length recipes start with a 5Kg bag. I wouldn't add crushing grain as an extra chore.

I suppose you can get the right crush for your equipment to maximise efficiency without getting a stuck mash. As I'm BIAB I order fine crush from Malt Miller, but that costs no extra. An extra 500g of grain would probably offset that loss anyway.

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MashBag
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by MashBag » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:58 pm

Yup - does freshness make a taste difference.

I am with you there - I tub my malt and seal it up in ex bird feed tubs as soon as it arrives.
Get through a couple or three sacks a year. So six months is a max for me too. Never had had a stuck mash or a fountain.

Is a mill only beneficial for peeps who cannot get crushed????
Last edited by MashBag on Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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john luc
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by john luc » Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:49 pm

One thing to note if you are buying crushed is if its not being sitting too long in a storeroom which you will not know. The other thing is if you buy say 5 kg crushed and plan to use 3.5 kg then you need to make sure you don't leave all the flour in the bag with the remaining 1.5 kg.
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guypettigrew
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by guypettigrew » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:06 pm

john luc wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:49 pm
One thing to note if you are buying crushed is if its not being sitting too long in a storeroom which you will not know. The other thing is if you buy say 5 kg crushed and plan to use 3.5 kg then you need to make sure you don't leave all the flour in the bag with the remaining 1.5 kg.
Good point about the flour, john luc. I also buy my malts ready crushed from Malt Miller in 5 x 5Kg bags, same as vacant. I always make a point of shaking the bag before opening it to distribute the flour--unless I'm intending to use the whole 5 Kg.

As to storage before receiving the grain; as far as I know, the Malt Miller grain is crushed on the day the order is sent out. Can't get much fresher than that!

Guy

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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by McMullan » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:23 pm

Pre-crushed malts and freshly cracked by your LHBS have a much shorter shelf life than uncrushed malts. I’d say several months to a year in ideal storage conditions. That's dry (low humidity), cool and dark. Intact seeds are little time capsules and actually last much longer than malsters suggest, if stored appropriately. The maltsters just don't want to take responsibility for your storage conditions, which is fair enough :wink: Even if you maintained the low moisture level (the most important factor) and stored pre-crushed malts in airtight containers it’s not going to last as long. This is not necessarily an issue for those who brew occasionally and order what they need each time they need it. It’s fine to do this, if it works for you. It’s very convenient and why you’ll pay a bit more for your malts. Also a good option if you haven’t got space to store much malt in suitable conditions, regardless. But it’s not necessarily the case that your pre-crushed malts are cracked optimally for your mash procedure. If you have a mill you can obviously dial in what’s best for your procedure. If you have space with suitable conditions to store uncrushed malts, you want to store said malts and you think your crush settings work better for your mash procedure you'll need a mill of your own.

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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by McMullan » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:49 pm

Interesting thinking about the costs (to the HBS) of milling individual orders. Time, PPE (occupational hazard to those weighing out malts), ventilation, cleaning, equipment, vacuum sealed bags, etc. If you were my customers I’d be like “Mill your own feckin grains!” :lol: Easier to see what really motivates Rob’s sales pitch perhaps? Quite honestly can’t criticise MM for that. As a service to your customers it’s great. As a business model it’s not so great. Better off stocking and flogging malt mills.

richard080561
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by richard080561 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:09 pm

MashBag wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:24 pm
I am in two minds about a mill.

I can easily buy everything crushed and a good one is a north of £200.

So can a taste a £200 difference?

Did a mill improve your beers?
You can get a good mill for a lot less than £200, e.g. https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... -3-roller/

One advantage of crushing the grain yourself is that you can make the crush as fine or as course as you like to suit your equipment.
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MashBag
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by MashBag » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:11 am

So nobody screaming the beer tastes better then?

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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by richard080561 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:55 am

MashBag wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:11 am
So nobody screaming the beer tastes better then?
We are too polite to scream :D

The main thing I noticed is an increase in mash efficiency. My beer has improved over the years but that is probably due to my technique improving as I become more experienced.
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by Rookie » Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:53 pm

richard080561 wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:09 pm
MashBag wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:24 pm
I am in two minds about a mill.

I can easily buy everything crushed and a good one is a north of £200.

So can a taste a £200 difference?

Did a mill improve your beers?
You can get a good mill for a lot less than £200, e.g. https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... -3-roller/

One advantage of crushing the grain yourself is that you can make the crush as fine or as course as you like to suit your equipment.
Isn't a two roller mill even less?
I was very happy with the two roller mill I used to have. My efficiency went up 15% when I switched to it from my lhbs doing it.
I'm just here for the beer.

McMullan

Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by McMullan » Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:31 pm

I noticed a jump of over 10% in mash efficiency when I upgraded from a Corona mill (which is cheap and still works, even now for me, in terms of rye and less friable, gritty, malts like wheat) to a Monster 2 roller (MM2) mill. It cost $246.80 (a staggering £178.19 today) including shipping plus UK VAT (17.5% at the time?). So about £210 total. Not the cheapest option even then, but I did get a stainless rollers upgrade in with the deal. Probably worth more today. But am I going to sell it? Am I bollocks :lol:

richard080561
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by richard080561 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:45 pm

Rookie wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:53 pm
richard080561 wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:09 pm
MashBag wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:24 pm
I am in two minds about a mill.

I can easily buy everything crushed and a good one is a north of £200.

So can a taste a £200 difference?

Did a mill improve your beers?
You can get a good mill for a lot less than £200, e.g. https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... -3-roller/

One advantage of crushing the grain yourself is that you can make the crush as fine or as course as you like to suit your equipment.
Isn't a two roller mill even less?
I was very happy with the two roller mill I used to have. My efficiency went up 15% when I switched to it from my lhbs doing it.
I have the three roller mill because the two was out of stock and my birthday money was burning a hole in my pocket, but I am sure the two roll is good enough. Like you, I noticed a significant increase in mash efficiency when I started milling the grain myself.
Richard M
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MashBag
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Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by MashBag » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:49 pm

Get your point about the having the local HBS doing it. I am in no doubt how variable that could be.

25kg sacks are normally crushed by the producer. My thinking was they should be better at it than me, with a drill in a shed?

McMullan

Re: Should I get a Mill?

Post by McMullan » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:54 pm

That's right, maltsters provide crushed malt as an option. The crack they use is optimised for big commercial mash tuns, not home brew tuns. To optimise your mash process you really need to invest in a grain mill, as the crack really is a key factor. I don't accept LHBS milling 'fresh just for you' malts on a small order by order basis as a viable business model. You're likely getting malts pre-crushed by the maltster generally. It just gets shovelled into a small bag with your name on it :roll:

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