Kettle to bottle

Get advice on making beer from raw ingredients (malt, hops, water and yeast)
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MashBag
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Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:22 am

Some might know I have been trialling fermentation directly in the BM.

This has been a stunning success. Producing very clear beer in 7 days.

I previously ran mash in BM > 2 weeks primary fermentation > 2 weeks cold > 2 weeks conditioning in bottle, before drinking.

Last time, because the beer tasted so good and was crystal clear, I bottled (just 2) straight from the BM and set it aside to bottle condition.

Last night at day 14 I drank it. I don't think the co2 had fully assimilated, but I was pleasantly surprised by the beer.

Thoughts? Can I hear screaming 😱 😱

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vacant
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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by vacant » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:38 am

Rust?

Perhaps wort doesn't have the same effect as water and/or the exposed components are of the same grade steel. Ask a chemist.

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MashBag
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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:06 am

I haven't seen any signs of rust.

Some stainless steel does rust. Some of it is magnetic. Both signs of a higher ferrous content in the alloy than others.

Something to consider and keep an eye on in SS Fermenters too.

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by IPA » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:14 am

How much sediment was there in the bottles ? :arrow:
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MashBag
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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:14 am

vacant wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:38 am
Rust?
Best not to leave any empty vessels with water in it, for numerous reasons.
Last edited by MashBag on Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:29 am, edited 4 times in total.

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MashBag
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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:17 am

IPA wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:14 am
How much sediment was there in the bottles ? :arrow:
Not much more than normal. First runnings are obviously trubby, but mid flow stunningly clear given just 7 days.

I am not recommending this process in any way, at the moment it is just a trial.

It did pour 'fluffy' cos it just hasn't had time to settle down.
Last edited by MashBag on Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:24 am

vacant wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:38 am
Rust?

Perhaps wort doesn't have the same effect as water and/or the exposed components are of the same grade steel. Ask a chemist.
That was a good read. Thanks.

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Eric
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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by Eric » Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:29 pm

I'm very much in favour of drinking beer soon after it is made, I am saddened to read advice of leaving the beer another week to be sure it is finished and while it is understandable for concern for and from newcomer, it is something to master and not always mastered by.

My beers are mostly served live from various plastic cask or pressure barrels and it changes with age. With that comes a point when beer is at its best, which varies from style to style and beer to beer. Any bottled is generally the excess of any immediate drinking needs. A recent 50 litre brew was from 3V, fermented in a 100 litre flat bottomed vessel. A heavy top fermenting yeast was kept open and roused for the first 2 days, cropped on the beginning of the third, then allowed to slowly cool and clear (not chilled). Racked into 2 @ 5 gallon PBs and one of 2 gallons a week after pitching, sampling began after 2 days. On Thursday gone, 2 weeks after racking, 40 bottles were filled from the contents of one 5 gallon plastic barrels and this was one.
R0010784.JPG
R0010784.JPG (1.65 MiB) Viewed 1927 times
Of course results are dependent on many factors and small differences can lead to large variations.

Last night (23 days from brewday) a few pints from the 2 gallon PB were sank and while they were decent enough, I suspect the peak will be another few weeks. The bottles will be consumed when needs must.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:00 am

I have to say I am a recent convert.
Stunned by how clear this beer has come out, after just 6-7 days, no chill and fermented on trub.

Do you settle your beers cold... Or straight from fermenter into the keg/bottle?

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:01 am

You can see where this is going...

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by Cobnut » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:26 am

Eric wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:29 pm
I'm very much in favour of drinking beer soon after it is made, I am saddened to read advice of leaving the beer another week to be sure it is finished and while it is understandable for concern for and from newcomer, it is something to master and not always mastered by.

My beers are mostly served live from various plastic cask or pressure barrels and it changes with age. With that comes a point when beer is at its best, which varies from style to style and beer to beer. Any bottled is generally the excess of any immediate drinking needs. A recent 50 litre brew was from 3V, fermented in a 100 litre flat bottomed vessel. A heavy top fermenting yeast was kept open and roused for the first 2 days, cropped on the beginning of the third, then allowed to slowly cool and clear (not chilled). Racked into 2 @ 5 gallon PBs and one of 2 gallons a week after pitching, sampling began after 2 days. On Thursday gone, 2 weeks after racking, 40 bottles were filled from the contents of one 5 gallon plastic barrels and this was one.

R0010784.JPG

Of course results are dependent on many factors and small differences can lead to large variations.

Last night (23 days from brewday) a few pints from the 2 gallon PB were sank and while they were decent enough, I suspect the peak will be another few weeks. The bottles will be consumed when needs must.
Those hops look good @Eric
Fermenting: Sunshine Marmalade
Conditioning: Festbier, Helles Bock
Drinking: Smoky, lager beer, Irish Export Stout, Hazelweiss 2023:2, Cascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, and more!

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Eric
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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by Eric » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:19 pm

MashBag wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:00 am
I have to say I am a recent convert.
Stunned by how clear this beer has come out, after just 6-7 days, no chill and fermented on trub.

Do you settle your beers cold... Or straight from fermenter into the keg/bottle?
Rarely will my ales be chilled below cellar during production, only when putting a bottle in the domestic fridge or if the beer store door is left open in cold winter weather.

Trub is never transferred to the next stage if it can be avoided, although kettle hops were sparged for the beer pictured above, so a small amount of break material got transferred to the FV.

Most of my beer is not bottled and when it is, only occasionally will it be taken directly from an FV, and then for some specific reason or purpose for the moment. Apart from multistage filtration, I know of no single method for clearing beers of all types and every production method. My process starts from the beginning with malt crush and in principle every non-essential particle that is not transferred to the next stage will help improve the finished product. I know of no natural, or processed readily available supply, water that cannot be adjusted to make better and clearer beer. That isn't saying clear beer cannot be made without adhering to those rules, just that it makes the outcome more predictable and sooner. I do use copper finings.

Much depends upon the yeast strain, its health and quantity pitched. Some yeasts are poor flocculators, some yeasts need certain treatment or a particular type of vessel to perform as the can or should. Some perform better in bottles than others while they might not be ideal for the primary fermentation, the list is virtually endless.

It's pleasing to read, although a surprise to me, that you have achieved satisfactory beer with such little effort. You have my very best wishes for determining what you might consider to improve.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by Eric » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:26 pm

MashBag wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:01 am
You can see where this is going...
Thanks Cobnut, those are the best I've grown so far, global warming reaches the North East. They are Northdown of which some from last year were used in the brew pictured.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by WalesAles » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:36 am

Eric,
Good looking beer! :D
Hops look BLM! :D

WA

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Re: Kettle to bottle

Post by MashBag » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:30 am

Eric wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:26 pm

It's pleasing to read, although a surprise to me, that you have achieved satisfactory beer with such little effort. You have my very best wishes for determining what you might consider to improve.
"Such little effort" the cheek of it 🤣🤣
This is the culmination of years of experience.... Or did I mean 'drinking' 🤣🤣
Last edited by MashBag on Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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