What co2 source do you use?

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Monkhouse
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What co2 source do you use?

Post by Monkhouse » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:15 pm

I’ve currently got a fermentasaurus which I will be pushing un carbonated beer from and into pre primed bottles. The co2 I’ll be using is Sodastream. I haven’t yet tested this set up but I’ve bought a bottling gun and hope to purge each bottle and fill.
Does anyone who has this Sodastream set up know how long roughly I can expect the gas bottle to last?

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IPA
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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by IPA » Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:19 am

Monkhouse wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:15 pm
I’ve currently got a fermentasaurus which I will be pushing un carbonated beer from and into pre primed bottles. The co2 I’ll be using is Sodastream. I haven’t yet tested this set up but I’ve bought a bottling gun and hope to purge each bottle and fill.
Does anyone who has this Sodastream set up know how long roughly I can expect the gas bottle to last?
Why purge? Why use a bottling gun? Why pressure transfer.?
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by f00b4r » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:38 am

IPA, I am guessing beers on the hoppier side.

Monkhouse, the Sodastream bottle should dispense around 60L of beer but this is without carbonating, purging and assumes minimal other losses (you might want to be halving that amount if purging).
What is the issue you are trying to solve by doing this (it might make it easier to help guide you, e.g. capping on foam can be a very good way to avoid oxygen pickup in the more sensitive beer styles but would involve other steps whereas for other beer styles you might just be making more work for yourself).

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by Monkhouse » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:41 pm

I was under the impression that for longer term storage in a bottle it’s best to purge it with co2 before filling? This brew I’m bottling soon is a maple stout, in the future I will be doing an IPA next and then a Belgian leffe clone. What styles of beer would you decide to definitely purge bottles with co2?

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vacant
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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by vacant » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:57 pm

When I used cornies I purged after filling, which seemed to be standard practise. Though I see if you are aiming for total elimination of contact with air then purging before filling makes sense. However I feel that there are diminishing returns here and double-blind testing would show it wasn't worth it.

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by f00b4r » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:04 pm

The IPA may benefit from it (UK or US version?) but I don't know how much mileage you would get out of it with the other two versus being careful when bottling and keeping them stored cold. Try doing a 50/50 split and seeing what you think.
Storage temperature will make a BIG difference to how quickly the beer ages and some styles benefit from varying mounts of ageing, normally I would say a stout would benefit but have no idea whether that is true of a 'maple' stout that may lose flavour (this happens if you "dry hop" with coconut). Conditioning can also smooth out faults but you will find that some of the more experienced brewers have a much quicker turnaround time on those beers as their processes get tighter and they reduce issues associated with them.
I would also pay attention when packaging (which is what you are trying to do with the CO2). Last year I made a very hoppy "pils" (I guess it would come under a NZ Pilsner and had US IPA level hopping) and bottle conditioned it from a bucket; there was a marked difference between a few bottles where I used a bottle filler and where I had used a bottle filler but opened it only very slowly for the first 1.5cm to avoid any splashing whatsoever - the bottles I was slightly less careful with were darker and exhibited signs of oxidation after a few weeks (darkening in colour, the hops becoming harsher and a honey note appearing). I was amazed how well the carefully filled bottles held up in terms of time (they were all gone after 12 weeks or so but tasted good until the end).
Purging may also help in a similar way for more sensitive beers but just be careful when filling. I think that part of the issue is that you have a pressure capable fv and want to use its advantages but but maybe don't have all the equipment to get the most out of it. It would be much better to either keg the beer in a closed transfer or be able to spund on the last points of fermentation and carbonate it naturally; this would then allow you to fill bottles and cap on foam (there is nowhere for the oxygen to go them) and/or keg the rest.
The best thing you can do though is try, there is a wealth of information out there but if you have issues in your process then you may not see the benefits that others do. Also reducing oxidation is almost a fetish amongst brewers at the moment but e.g. in cask beer it is a necessity to get the best out of it (albeit in a controlled manner and with a small drinking window).

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by f00b4r » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:05 pm

vacant wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:57 pm
When I used cornies I purged after filling, which seemed to be standard practise. Though I see if you are aiming for total elimination of contact with air then purging before filling makes sense. However I feel that there are diminishing returns here and double-blind testing would show it wasn't worth it.
A bit more succinct!

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by Monkhouse » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:51 pm

Wow that’s allot of info thanks! In the future I will possibly spend out on a couple of corny kegs but for now I really want to bottle- as much of a pita it can be!
I think from the replies I’ve learnt that bottle purging isn’t quite all that! And to be fair with the bottling gun even without purging I’m confident it will be a smooth splash free process so every bit of oxygen minus actual purging will be totally minimal. I will probably do what you said and maybe purge a handful just to test.

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by Monkhouse » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:54 pm

Oh and it’s the Jon finch American ipa I will be doing next btw!

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by MashBag » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:28 pm

IPA wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:19 am
Monkhouse wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:15 pm
I’ve currently got a fermentasaurus which I will be pushing un carbonated beer from and into pre primed bottles.
Why purge? Why use a bottling gun? Why pressure transfer.?
I have reread this a couple of times.
And I am with you IPA.
Why, why & why?

Loose the lid. Bottom fill the pre primed bottles. Cap. Done.

Simples no gas required.

Are we missing something?

Ps. A knapsack party tap with a piece of gas hose poked in the nozzle make a brilliant filler.

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by IPA » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:49 pm

Try one of these.
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/little-bott ... ur-bottles
Years ago I bought a Blichmann bottle filler. It cost a fortune and was/ is completely useless.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

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MashBag
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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by MashBag » Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:53 am

Good shout IPA. Simple and effective.

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Mashman
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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by Mashman » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:46 pm

IPA wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:49 pm
Try one of these.
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/little-bott ... ur-bottles
Years ago I bought a Blichmann bottle filler. It cost a fortune and was/ is completely useless.
I use one of these for beer and wine. An excellent piece of kit.
Two Valleys Brewery

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Re: What co2 source do you use?

Post by f00b4r » Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:00 am

Those taps designed for a wand will not work on a Fermentasaurus, it’s basically a PET conical. You do get a attachment that you can swap out for the collection bottle that allows you to add tubing, for bottle filling, when the yeast has been removed.

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