Doughing In at Ambient Temperature

[ARNWD]

Hi all,

On an all in one system, is there any reason not to add grain prior to heating to mash temperature?

Add the grist when the liquor is at say 20°C, switch on recirculation, then program the control to raise the temp to mash temp and then hold at mash temp until the mash is finished. Continue as normal.

I have always added the grain at strike temperature just because thats the way every brewer does it. Obviously with a three vessel setup grain needs to be added at an appropriate strike temperature.

Thanks in advance,
ARNWD.

[MashBag]

None whatsoever. I do all my brews like that.

I always dough in at 20c @ 7pm. My BM20 holds 20c overnight and mash starts at 4am while I am in bed.

Wake at 7am I have a coffee and then start boil.

[f00b4r]

Different enzymes are denatured at different temperature so you are changing the fermentation profile of the wort. It may “work” but you change the composition of the wort by either changing the temperature of a single temperature infusion mash (ie one temperature kept constant) or by step mashing (this is what you would be essentially doing - there are lots of variations which all yields differing results). Deconcoction mashing is another method that will again yield different results, eg a more fermentable wort.

[f00b4r]

Overnight mashing can also do the same, it can make the wort more fermentable, this may be a good or bad thing depending upon the beer, in some cases making it thin/watery if not compensated for (which most overnight “mashers” seem to do from older threads when this has been discussed).

[ARNWD]

I have a unique for me, opportunity to have a back to back brew day. Yesterday and today.

Mashbag, yes that was the idea. Overnight mash and boil in the morning. However, by the time yeast was added, tidied up and prep'd for today etc it was 11:00pm and I just could not be bothered to go any further! In the end started fresh this morning with adding liquor to the vessel and raising temp as I normally would.

f00b4r, if I ever decide to overnight mash I will take your comments onboard. Something to think about when relaxing.

Both of you thanks for the advice.

For the record yesterday was a Wadworth's 6X clone (Graham Wheeler) and today is my 2nd go at an Old Peculiar clone of my own design - Maris Otter Pale, Dark Crystal and Roasted Barley. Hops are Target and Challanger for bittering with Fuggles at flame out.

Cheers,
ARNWD.

[IPA]

Hi all,

On an all in one system, is there any reason not to add grain prior to heating to mash temperature?

Add the grist when the liquor is at say 20°C, switch on recirculation, then program the control to raise the temp to mash temp and then hold at mash temp until the mash is finished. Continue as normal.

I have always added the grain at strike temperature just because thats the way every brewer does it. Obviously with a three vessel setup grain needs to be added at an appropriate strike temperature.

Thanks in advance,
ARNWD.

What are you hoping to achieve? You are not decreasing the process time.

[MashBag]

Overnight mashing can also do the same, it can make the wort more fermentable, this may be a good or bad thing depending upon the beer, in some cases making it thin/watery if not compensated for (which most overnight “mashers” seem to do from older threads when this has been discussed).

Yes good point. The choice of beer style needs to be considered. That said ONM's can be done by just extending any temp step.

[ARNWD]

What are you hoping to achieve? You are not decreasing the process time.

I was hoping to sleep! Extend the mash time then wake to sparge.

[MashBag]

I have been sleeping through mashing for a good couple of years now.

Once you have mastered that, consider not chilling, and then fermenting in the kettle. Even more sleep.

Do it. It'll be fine.

[IPA]

What are you hoping to achieve? You are not decreasing the process time.

I was hoping to sleep! Extend the mash time then wake to sparge.

There are alternative practices. Turn on and heat to mash in temperature before going to bed. Get up at your chosen time and mash in.

The best choice is buy bigger equipment to double your volume and thereby halve your brewing time.
Using a 50 litre Braumeister I brew 57 litre batches every 3/4 weeks.

[MashBag]

There are alternative practices. Turn on and heat to mash in temperature before going to bed. Get up at your chosen time and mash in.

The best choice is buy bigger equipment to double your volume and thereby halve your brewing time.
Using a 50 litre Braumeister I brew 57 litre batches every 3/4 weeks.

Ok both of those work. But they do raise questions in my head.

First one. Heating water to 66c for 8-12 hours while I sleep, I could not do.. to the planet or my electricity bill

Second. I am curently propagating a lot of seeds in the polytunnel, some are coming on better than others. But sure I will get the money tree to take

[PeeBee]

"Doughing in" at ambient temperature has its advantages: The temperature is well below gelatinization temperature for the starch in the grains, so no "balling" and mixing in the grain is easy-peasy.

The disadvantage! Is figuring out what temperature the mash is at. Look at the temperature gauge? It's a commonly held belief that these one-pot system regulate and display the temperature of the entire mash. This fallacy presumes that liquor passes through the stodgy mash evenly. Don't be daft; how likely is that? It's okay for minor changes of temperature, conduction will help the entire mash get up to the same temperature in a few minutes, but heating from ambient to 65°C-ish? There will be areas of the mash that probably haven't heated to 45°C by the time mash is considered "complete".

As "IPA" says, there are better alternative practices: Like over-night mashing, or what I do and split the brewing process across two days (really easy with a one-pot system; mash 1-2 hours in the evening, lift the malt tube, sparge and start the boil in the morning - there won't be a huge drop in temperature overnight). You have an idea of what's happening instead of taking the "err ... it'll be all right" option.

[guypettigrew]

Heating water to 66c for 8-12 hours while I sleep, I could not do.. to the planet or my electricity bill

My HLT is on a timer. It comes on about 5.00am to get the liquor to my desired temperature. The HLT is well insulated. Once the temperature is reached it hardly comes on at all.

Guy

[Eric]

I've neither doughed in at ambient or mashed overnight, but for years monitored and recorded mash tun content temperature, pH and sugar content, with a row for each in my brewsheet for mash and sparge. For years my system was RIMS with 3 thermowells in an insulated tun, and Peebee's middle paragraph is a perfect summary of that experience. While at our scale of operation it is difficult to hold temperature constant, the efforts made by large scale brewers from many years past suggest that even and constant temperature in the mash tun is probably vital for brewing good beers.

1853 was when Steel's masher was patented, and it's swift and almost universal adoption in breweries across the British Isles, enabling their tuns to be filled, once steamed to temperature, simultaneously to mixing grist and mash liquor at a predetermined temperature.

My latest brew took from 10 minutes from start to fully mash in and mix. To achieve an acceptable uniform temperature took 27 minutes more. Not having brewed for 5 months due to injury and using a simple Klarstein single pot no doubt both played parts in the delay, but does serve to demonstrate all mash conditions might not be as thought by many, particularly in short duration mashes.

[MashBag]

Heating water to 66c for 8-12 hours while I sleep, I could not do.. to the planet or my electricity bill

My HLT is on a timer. It comes on about 5.00am to get the liquor to my desired temperature. The HLT is well insulated. Once the temperature is reached it hardly comes on at all.

Guy

Righto. That's makes far more sense.