CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

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PeeBee
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CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by PeeBee » Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:23 pm

This is a jolly book and one I'm putting a lot of reliance on for recipes in the 18th Century. Written at the start of this Century, ideas may have come on a bit in the last 20 years? And I'm having a problem with consistency with some of the early recipes.

Of particular interest is the recipe for "Stitch", a strong hopped ale (not beer) that Clive La Pensée has extracted from the "London and Country" 1736 publication. Starting with the grain; 17Kg of Brown Malt in 25 litres ... that's a bit more than just "strong"! Yet at the same time the recipe states "Original Gravity not known" which is okay 'cos hydrometers weren't in use, and "aim at 1.065" which 17Kg of malt will more than achieve!

I'll cope with that. 7Kg of brown malt (my diastatic emulation). But hops ...

88g of 5% AA hops in 25 litres? That's a shed load, Elsewhere the recipe says, "hop amounts are guesswork based on what was common for a small brewer doing a moderately strong March Ale", yet also says "9EBU", which it plainly won't be! I have had a suggestion that the breweries at the time were still struggling to cope with all the spent hops so weren't using vast amounts of hops.

So, I may stick with the "9EBU" remark, perhaps pushing it out to 14 EBU.

What would you say?
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Eric
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Re: CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by Eric » Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:41 pm

What would I say? Does that include me? 9 EBU might be close to being right for the period as who knows what bitterness th0se hops might bring? Certainly in the 19th century some British brewers used American hops for their extra bitterness compared to British varieties and in Clive's recipe the hops are replaced after 30 minutes boiling, but I'd agree the beer would be better, but maybe less authentic, with more bitterness.

Interesting that brewers might in the past had trouble getting rid of spent hops. Mine are simply turned into the borders of the garden and it would seem the worms deal with them in short time. The family owning the original Vaux brewery also farmers who simply spread used hops on their land to the undoubted pleasure of passers-by.

I've had this book some time, having enjoyed Clive's previous writings, although cannot remember, and therefore doubt, I've ever brewed any of his recipes. He sold his first book from home, and being one of the first to purchase, he sent me a lovely covering letter and a rhizome from his Hallertauer hops, telling me how easy they were to grow. Planted, it was never to be again seen, but over thirty years later with recent experience growing hops, how right he was, with just a little care.

Looks like you have another interesting project underway.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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Re: CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by PeeBee » Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:27 pm

Thanks Eric. That's one up for 9 IBU. Clive wasn't being very convincing in that section ... probably wasn't convincing himself. Hence, I need a bit of argument for and against before proceeding. And proceed I must, though there is lots I still want to do with the 19th Century to come back to.

Not a new project, it's the old one of "brown malt" emulations and coming up with something that might pass for Civil War soldier mouthwash. I've got a lot of "emulation" ingredients that need using up so need to get on with it. The "sugar" project is pretty much done, and I put the Hancock 1898 mild ales (No.3 comparison) on tap today, and an "AK" pair (No.2 comparison) is in the pipeline for later in the year.

Wrong end of stick for "spent hop" problem ... it would have been the boilers that couldn't handle the large load of hops as they were designed for much smaller loads of "gruit". I think it was you that started me down that path! I'm having the same issues and had to modify my boilers to handle the hops in that 18-19th Century stuff.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by Eric » Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:42 pm

I remember when nearly all hen's eggs were white and my grandmother would keep a brown one for me. There would inevitably be a broken egg stuck to the bottom of the box. This week in Fenwick's food hall in Newcastle was a whole tray of white eggs used to distinguish just one of their many displays, but opening the new box of eggs at home, they were all brown, as usual.

Can we imagine what British hops of 1736 might have been? Probably no more than Clive can. I doubt they would be like those popular American ones of today I can hardly abide, but nor would I suspect the subtle character of those today I prefer. I doubt the beer then would be very heavily hopped, I get your point about large quantities in the boil, but hops were maybe not the most demanded ingredient of that time.

Fine on your recent Hancock brew, I've been rather tied up with other matters in recent days and longer, so have not got round to see how mine is doing. It should be ready, but there's a half empty pin attached to a beer engine that needs attention while in decent fettle. When chance arrives I'll pour some and post a picture. Currently I'm at youngest daughter's house looking after grandchildren.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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Re: CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by WallyBrew » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:32 pm

For Brewing strong brown Ale called Stitch.

This is most of it the first running of the malt, but yet of longer length than is drawn for the Stout; It has but few Hops boiled in it, and is sold for eight-pence per Gallon at the Brewhouse out of the Tun, and is generally made to amend the common brown Ale with, on particular occasions. This Ale I remember was made use of by Medlicot Esq; in the beginning of a Consumption, and I heard him say, it did him very great service, for he lived many years afterwards.


For Stout-Beer, is commonly drawn one Barrel off a quarter of Malt, and sold for thirty Shillings per Barrel from the Tun.

For Stitch or strong brown Ale, one Barrel and a Firkin, at one and twenty Shillings and Fourpence per Barrel from the Tun.

For common brown Ale, one Barrel and a half or more, at sixteen Shillings per Barrel, that holds thirty two Gallons, from the Tun.

For Intire small Beer, five or six Barrels off a Quarter, at seven or eight Shillings per Barrel from the Tun.

For Pale and Amber Ale, one Barrel and a Firkin, at one Shilling per Gallon from the Tun.
So low bitterness and 45 gallons from one quarter of malt which is another variable as it was a volume rather than 336 lb as it is today.

From other sources the 1st mash would be very stiff at about a hogshead per quarter.

Interesting that small beer is given as 5 to 6 barrels per quarter given that a quarter of malt is deemed to yield 5 and a half barrels of 1050. But that again is with a pale malt that has an extract in the region of 100 brewers lbs per quarter and the malt of 1736, especially the darker malt, could be very much lower than that.

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Re: CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by PeeBee » Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:35 pm

Thank you very much "WallyBrew".

Is that quote from the actual "London & Country" 1736? That publication is way too heavy for me, they scibbled kind o' funny back then an' I 'aven't the stamina to find anyfink in it. I appreciate someone digging the relevant stuff out.

The CAMRA book has:
Stitch is made the same way as London Stout but the runnings are greater in volume and it has a considerably higher hopping rate.
That didn't ring true, as your quote confirms. But it wasn't a solitary error in that CAMRA book: The "Extra Strong London Stout" (Pg.54) has a paltry 44g of hops for twenty-five litres, the Stitch (ale) (Pg.76) has twice that! So, your post goes in the 9IBU category! (3-0 now!).

I'm not too worried about the grain, I'll just go with the "Aim at 1065" recommendation. My brown malt emulation can't "emulate" the bad extraction rates with the historical stuff (haven't figured how I could emulate that).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by WallyBrew » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:33 pm

Yes it is taken from the 1736 print run.

As to the malt you only have three to choose from, pale, amber and brown.

So another bit.......
The brown Malt is the soonest and highest dryed of any, even till it is so hard, that it's difficult to bite some of its corns asunder, and is often so crusted or burnt, that the farinous part loses a great deal of its essential salts and vital property, which frequently deceives its ignorant brewer, that hopes to draw as much drink from a quarter of this, as he does from pale or amber sorts. This malt by some is thought to occasion the Gravel and Stone, besides what is commonly called the Heart-burn; and is by its steely nature less nourishing than the pale or amber malts, being very much impregnated with the fiery fumiferous particles of the kiln, and therefore its drink sooner becomes sharp and acid than that made from the pale or amber sorts, if they are all fairly brewed. For this reason the London brewers mostly use the Thames or New River waters to brew this malt with, for the sake of its soft nature, whereby it agrees with the harsh qualities of it better than any of the well or other hard sorts, and makes a luscious ale for a little while, and a But-beer that will keep very well five or six months, but after that time it generally grows stale, notwithstanding there be ten or twelve bushels allowed to the Hogshead, and it be hopped accordingly.
So you need a brown malt that has been treated more harshly than the brown you can get so you may want to try to burn a bit of it in the oven or cook some on the barbecue with some straw to get that authentic flavour :shock:

From the above it would suggest that you can brew directly with your water but then I think the terms soft and hard are not applied very well as George Watkins writing in 1760 about Dorchester ale said......
We know all boiling hardens water, and what we want in this is to be soft

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Re: CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics: Stout & Porter" recipes

Post by PeeBee » Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:22 pm

WallyBrew wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:33 pm
... As to the malt you only have three to choose from, pale, amber and brown. ...
You appear to be lucky ... you haven't had to plough your way through the reams of drivel I've done on "emulating" brown malt. Ask Eric (if he's not still comatose from trying to understand my scribbling first-time round).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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