"No-Chill" Cubes

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MashBag
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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:14 pm

PeeBee wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:39 pm
I'm going for the cheap option (even "tighter" than thee) ... a couple of loose boards and ratchet tightened webbing straps...
Hmm.. That's better still. And a couple of tennis balls in there to press the centre. 👍🏻👍🏻

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by PeeBee » Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:41 pm

Taken me a couple of months to get it (or me?) together ...
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No "tennis balls"! There won't be room, or you'd need as many arms as an octopus to assemble it.

But some ideas for "modifications" do emerge from the exercise: The filling wants some plumbing so when the cube is full you don't continue to pump hot wort over the floor (should be arranged so the cube can be easily filled to the brim without gymnastics with a very hot, very floppy, cube); and a means of slackening the straps in a predictable way to have the ability to fill some more (when hot the cubes will hold a couple of litres more).

The piccie shows how effective they are: The one on the right (cooled and straps off) has very flat sides: No bulging 'cos it was filled hot. It was filled with 22 litres, give or take a couple hundred milliliters, at about 90°C (some heat is lost during filling, so don't expect 100°C to be going in). 84°C represents 1% shrinkage, so cooled to ambient the sealed cube now holds (a further 3% shrinkage, four in total) about 21.34 litres. That's a bit more predictable!

WARNING: Don't try to lift hot cubes by the handle! The handle will easily start moving upwards, but the base stays firmly on the ground! If you need to move them, slid them, or have them sitting on a dolly before filling.


[EDIT: Forgot to mention: When filling have the straps only tight enough to hold them in place. Those ratchets will happily crush the cube inwards! Think you can tighten them without ratchets? You can try ... I think you'll find it ain't so easy!]
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:44 am

But some ideas for "modifications" do emerge from the exercise: The filling wants some plumbing so when the cube is full you don't continue to pump hot wort over the floor
Don't pour to fill point. Get close and then squeeze it.

I have gotten most air out by having them tipped backwards (spout high). Then nip the cap up after the first bead of liquid.

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by PeeBee » Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:24 am

MashBag wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:44 am
Don't pour to fill point. Get close and then squeeze it. ...
You might not be seeing the implications of what I'm doing to these cubes. You can't "squeeze" them because they have been prevented from bulging out. There's not much to squeeze, and the tackle wrapped about them would make such an operation awkward.

You can get a similar effect by just slightly tightening the ratchets. But it's better thinking of the cubes as completely rigid.

The purpose of "plumbing" is to make the operation "fire-and-forget", because if it can be forgotten, even for a moment, the result will soon be sticky wort all over the floor. Made worse if there's 40-60 litres of wort to fit into two to three cubes!
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:15 am

Can you not squeeze here (press). Just to get last of the air out?
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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by PeeBee » Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:28 am

While tipping the cube back to get the air to the top. While steadily holding the pressure on just enough to stop the wort squeezing out onto the floor. While "nipping" the cap closed at the right moment. While ignoring the ratchets on the straps which would do the job without the effort. While ignoring the puddle of wort on the floor because I wasn't paying enough attention when filling the cube. While chasing that flippin' tennis ball across the room. While contemplating how things were so much simpler when I was abled bodied :-s . ...

After defacing one of my piccies, I'm not going to let you win this argument!!! I don't doubt you can do it, but I'll stick to figuring out how easily (and cheaply) I can organise some plumbing to make the job easy, hazard-free and predictable. Because this "no-chill" technique certainly has its merits so it's worth putting a bit of thought behind it.

:D



:aarh: :beer: ... and that git who keeps flicking beer at me is going to get it in a minute.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by PeeBee » Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:11 am

As a treat I'll include this snippet of a spreadsheet I use to predict the volumes I'm making. It's used to supplement "Beersmith" (my chosen recipe builder) to cover bits it doesn't cover. This might explain why I'm putting so much effort into my "no-chill cubes". I need this predictability of final volume and final gravity, if you don't and can handle a bit of unpredictability (chaos!) in your life, ignore my efforts.
Into Fermenter.jpg
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Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:20 am

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by PeeBee » Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:37 pm

PeeBee wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:41 pm
... It was filled with 22 litres, give or take a couple hundred milliliters, at about 90°C (some heat is lost during filling, so don't expect 100°C to be going in). 84°C represents 1% shrinkage, so cooled to ambient the sealed cube now holds (a further 3% shrinkage, four in total) about 21.34 litres. That's a bit more predictable! ...
Not quite so predictable! The pump (it's a Grainfather G70) appears (guessing, I'm not taking it apart!) to have a close fitting, possibly flexible, impeller. To make it more effective for its size? But it's capable of holding a very small bit of backpressure, such that the "built-in" sight-glass can show 0 litres on minute and 2-4 the next (the G70 pumps out via the sight glass). I'll need to get a better measure or figure a work-around.

I guess the G40 (with combined sight-glass/pump-output) is the same.

Has anyone come up with anything?
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:28 am

I would think it's a magnetic pump impeller.
That is a bit odd piping to the sight glass.

Do you not strip the pump to clean it?
How can you be sure of anything else if the pump is wet or worse infected?

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by PeeBee » Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:28 pm

Sight-glasses on boilers is odd too. All that unboiled wort dumped in your fermenter. This way you do get the option to cycle the unboiled bit into the boiler.

But the pump plays havoc with getting a reliable reading off the sight-glass (when the pump is running, it is of course impossible to use the sight-glass).

The G40 is the same. I think it was more "conventional" ("unclean" separate sight-glass) in the earlier model.

As for striping a brand new pump in a brand new (and expensive!) "one-pot" system ... pass!
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by PeeBee » Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:47 am

But: Not having opened the pump I'm only guessing how it functions.

If a simple open impeller (magnetically or direct driven; undoubtably magnetic driven on a pump this size 'cos it doesn't involve all that sealing caper) the fluid levels in boiler and sight-glass would be the same. If a sealed impeller, the sight-glass would always indicate fully topped up. If, as I'm guessing, it's a "not so open" impeller (to squeeze out some efficiency) the levels in boiler and sight-glass will differ slightly, and randomly, as the minuscule hydrostatic pressure of liquid in the sight-glass held by the "close-to-sealing" efficient "open" impeller fails to overcome the minuscule seal of the impeller. Obviously not enough seal to perform any useful function, but enough to mess up the accuracy of the sight-glass.

And then there's the other possibility ... it isn't an impeller pump at-all!

Has anyone with a G40/G70 failed to hold back their inquisitiveness (i.e. taken a look?).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:07 am

PeeBee wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:28 pm
Sight-glasses on boilers is odd too. All that unboiled wort dumped in your fermenter. This way you do get the option to cycle the unboiled bit into the boiler.
I hear you. I also hate taps. Generally in the wrong place and filth traps and leaky drippy bollox.

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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:21 am

PeeBee wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:28 pm

As for striping a brand new pump in a brand new (and expensive!) "one-pot" system ... pass!
Now here again... we come down to good design or designer who doesn't know the first thing about the product usage.

This is the BM pump design.
All pipes accessible underneath.
You spin (by hand) the brass ring and it comes apart.
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Re: "No-Chill" Cubes

Post by MashBag » Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:22 am

Here's the pump open.
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