Why is AG brewing better than extract?

[ashbyp]

Presumably the extract producers are good at mashing, have sorted out their water treatment, have very well controlled production environments and so on.

So why would mashing at home be better than using extract?

I can think of two things:
- Mashing at home produces a fresher wort, is that really significant?
- Mashing the speciality grains with the malt is better than steeping them.

Just wondering what people think on this.

[anomalous_result]

It's not just speciality grains though. In order to replicate some brews you need to use diastatic malt extract and perform a partial mash, you may as well mash it all. And the price of extract is pretty high (£15+ for 3kg) when compared with grain imo.

Can't comment on the differing quality but it seems to me that AG offers more control, you can alter the mash temp to suit the style and your taste rather than rely on the extract you're given.

It's difficult for me to believe that an evaporated product of an industrial process is necessarily better than or even equivalent to the result of an experienced home brewer's efforts.

[mr bond]

- Mashing at home produces a fresher wort, is that really significant?Yes very significant!
- Mashing the speciality grains with the malt is better than steeping them.(Yes it is because of the base grain enzymes that help to convert a little of the specialty grains.

Malt extract is mashed at much higher temps than would be used for AG and then dried or reduced to goop, a process that changes the malt pofile of the beer.Extract beers always have a heavier mouth feel(to me) and higher finishing gravity(unless you use large quantities of sugar/dextrose to thin it).
Fresh coffee from ground beans made on an espresso or in a plunger is always fresher and far tastier than an instant coffee made from rehydrated extracts,I'm sure you'd agree.

But above all YOU can make a recipe from scratch with a far wider variety of base malts and ratios of different grains than you will get from using a generic pale, amber or dark extract with steeped grains.It's absolute brewing freedom.

[johnh]

I believe the difference is most commonly put down to uptake of oxygen during the production and storage of the wort. For this reason alone AG will always have the edge on freshness. However, that said, I do believe the difference can be overstated. Using the best quality, freshest extract in the shop can minimise the effects as can avoiding plastic containers. IMO, campden tablet treatment, recipe formulation, strong breaks, fermentation temperature, yeast handling, etc. all have a much greater effect on the final result and can be practiced without the complication of the mash.

Having said all that, AG gives you more flexibility over style, it is also definitely much more fun and cheaper in the long run.

[Martin the fish]

Because that's how you make beer-with grains. You don't see breweries buying cans of extract.
I'd equate it to this-
Cracking one of the wrist-nice and convenient. Just like kits.
Shagging a blow up doll or a whore. Reasonable but not quite there-Extract
Having a bloody good time with a right fit bird. Proper all grain full mash heaven.

Nuff said?

[ashbyp]

Ok - some interesting answers and analogies

I'm liking extract brewing because I can get a brew done after work in the evening (and I don't get home till 8 ), and as Johnh says there are quite a few things you can concentrate on to improve extract results...

No doubt I'll bite the bullet at some stage though.

[Martin the fish]

I know of at least one brewery that added extract to the boil because their MT wasn't big enough for the particular beer being made. I'm pretty sure this has been resolved now though.

And i know a few guys who have had sex with a whore. It'll do but it's not what you really want.

[johnh]

And the you get married and have kids and before long you're back on kits!

[flytact]

chicks dig it

[ashbyp]

And the you get married and have kids and before long you're back on kits!

I hear you! Still, my lad will be drinking age in about 16 1/2 years, so I'll train him up as my AG helper at some stage before then.

[Martin the fish]

all depends on what they are charging...they're usually cheaper than a missus or girlfriend and they don't tell you to decorate the living room or what to wear

Damn, beer out of mouth onto keyboard incident. Then fish wife comes in to ask if i'm ok. Tried to explain just laughing at a post and she insisted on seeing what was so funny. Wives have no sense of humour at 1.20am.

[macleanb]

I think thats a bit harsh MtF, I mean - you can still type!

[Gurgeh]

And the you get married and have kids and before long you're back on kits!

I hear you! Still, my lad will be drinking age in about 16 1/2 years, so I'll train him up as my AG helper at some stage before then.

you mean you're going to train him to bring fit women home for you???

[DRB]

daab said- all depends on what they are charging...they're usually cheaper than a missus or girlfriend and they don't tell you to decorate the living room or what to wear



Talking on experience there daab .

[Barley Water]

I will let those obviously in the know discuss the benefit/downside of inflatables and tarts but the main reason to do all grain brewing is because it is fun. For me anyway, the reason I find it entertaining is because when you play around with the various variables you control, it changes the taste of the product (where with extract brewing many of these decisions are made for you). Although it may take 6 to 8 hours to get the wort in the fermentor and pitch the yeast, there is alot of waiting around (like during the mash for instance) and that time can be used to get other things done. The first couple of times you do an all grain brew might seem somewhat intense but you will quickly get into a routine so the whole process for me anyway is somewhat relaxing.