Efficiency/Strike Water Help

[Cozzyb]

Okay, need some help guys, keep having efficiency problems.
Did a brew today, added 9ltr of water, raised to about 70c and then added 1.2kg of Lager Malt, 750g of Wheat malt (250g of candy sugar also added into the boil).

Mashed via 3 steps 10 mins at 45c, 15 mins 55c and then 45 mins at 66c with a 10 min mashout of 73-75c ish.
Sparged with 4 ltrs of water and boiled.

Ended up with about 10ltr of wort at the end, which I topped up with water to 11ltr. Refractometer shows 11 Brix, so 1.044, which Beersmith says gave me a low efficiency of 66%, so what am I doing wrong?

[Cozzyb]

Also my amount of water to grain in that initial 9ltr always seem to much water, is it better to say mash with 5ltr for a thick mash, and sparge with more water?

[barney]

What mash setting are you using from beersmith?

if you mash a single step at 2.5 ltr per kilogram of malt and then sparge the rest of the water you will end up with better efficiency.

I would change the settings in beersmith to 2.5 ltr per kilo.

The extra rinse water will give a better efficiency.

[Lars]

Could you have mash ph issues? BIAB uses a very loose mash and gets better efficiencies with no sparge. I'd typically use 30l water for a 4~5kg grain bill. I used to have very poor efficiency until I sorted out some water problems

[barney]

DOH!

[Eric]

I'd say you've done nothing wrong. Dare I suggest your expectations might have been a little high?
There are many ways you will in time learn that increase efficiency, but in early stages at that scale and method, 66% for the combination of mash and boil would be a likely norm.
You've lost a third of the sugars available from the malts and when that is down to one quarter you'll be up with the rest. Add 10% more grain next time and consider calling the result, progress.

[Cozzyb]

I'd say you've done nothing wrong. Dare I suggest your expectations might have been a little high?
There are many ways you will in time learn that increase efficiency, but in early stages at that scale and method, 66% for the combination of mash and boil would be a likely norm.
You've lost a third of the sugars available from the malts and when that is down to one quarter you'll be up with the rest. Add 10% more grain next time and consider calling the result, progress.

Thanks Eric, that is very reassuring, I will worry about it less and just get on with some more brews

[Cpt.Frederickson]

Out of interest, do you ever use the BIABrewer calculator? I find it really useful, there's alot of discussion on the site regarding efficiency and this sheet defines a number of different efficiency areas; the main ones being "into kettle" (your mash efficiency) and your end of boil efficiency.

I just completed my 5th BIAB today; I previously did two mini-BIABs and one mini-Maxi-BIAB before moving onto a 30ltr Buffalo boiler. I managed 76% for the last one, and today smashed it with a mash efficiency of 88.9% and an EOB efficiency of 85.4%. BIAB rocks!

I'm still new to this game and I've never worried about efficiency, just try to get used to your equipment and making sure your process is smooth and well planned and it'll take care of itself. Soon you'll be hitting some big numbers!
Good luck with your future brews buddy,
D.

[jonnyt]

I've done over 15 BIAB's and never ever got above 70% despite trying little batch sparges etc.

I now consistently get 70% with a BIAB HERMs I have developed thus I find your numbers incredible to say the least!

[Cpt.Frederickson]

As was I! This one was far and away the best brewday so far, everything went to plan. 3.5kg grain bill in 25.5 litres of water translated into 1.041 after mash! Only lost about 2.5-3 degrees over 90 mins and evaporation wasn't bad either. Got 18 litres at 1.051, mad stuff. I'd have been happy with 70% but this was just crazy. Maybe all I've heard about Crisp Maltings pale malt being particularly good is true...

[dynamic dave]

Is there not a variation in different batches of grain which effects amount of sugars that can be taken and throw off mash efficiency.

[vacant]

When I BIAB I get 65 - 72%, Batch sparge is usually 75 - 82%, I wanted to work out why.

I tried to work through some theory in this post and concluded BIAB (single sparge) would give 9% less efficiency than a two-batch sparge.

66% is fine for BIAB.