No Chill Cubes

[Goulders]

Right, nearly got all the equipment for BIAB. Buffalo 40l for birthday next week, large viking sparge bag arriving soon and got thermometer. Need hop strainer. For buffalo thinking of using stainless steel braid on a pipe inserted into the back of the tap unless anyone has a better idea?

Anyway, was going to make a IC but the price of copper is pretty high at the moment. Plus, as I work pretty long hours, I was thinking of splitting the brew day up (water treatment one day; mash/boil and pitch over another 2 days) and have been looking at No Chill. I know it is popular in Aus and seems to work well, but is it good for bitters as well? (Torn between Fullers ESB and London Pride for first brew, and want to try Mysterio's SNPA too!

Have seen these on flea bay which look good here. Any comments?

Thanks

Jon

[Valley Commando]

I don't understand the no-chill in a cube idea: Is it not easier to get wort into the FV and seal it into the FV as quickly as possible? It can no-chill just as easily in the FV; if you have an FV with a good airtight lid (the youngs screwtop ones are good!) it can be shaken to allow the hot wort to scald it in the same way as a cube. As long as the seal is good and the FV is disinfected initially, no cube+no chill =no problem!

Alternatively there is nothing to stop you removing your hops from the wort (using a hopsock), placing the lid on the Buffalo and placing cling wrap or foil over the lid to render it as air tight as possible: the inside of the Buffalo urn is well and truly scalded clean of bugs so no infection risk: you can rack off the wort in the morning with plenty of time for break material to settle out. Nice clear wort into the FV!

The cube seems an unnecessary complication to me! Eliminate the cube: its one less step, one less way to introduce contamination, one less thing to clean/sterilize/store.

[Kev888]

The no-chill thing, as with 'so' many other aspects is a bit divided. The key thing is that you make sure the sugary wort remains free from external sources of infection getting in, and getting a head start on all that goodness before the yeast is pitched, but if you protect it from that then it can certainly work. The slow speed of cooling means that the 'cold break' is reduced; which can supposedly cause stuff like chill haze. I also (very vaguely) recall that stuff can be generated from the warm wort but not driven off by the boil thats now over, though most of that will be gone if you boil properly beforehand anyway. There's unlikely to be full agreement with this, but I personally suspect these things aren't important - the aussies can brew very good beer this way after all.

In respect to time, with the right setup some people mash overnight, and alternatively I also find that heating the initial liquor on an immersion heater timer means it can start whilst I'm still in bed, and be ready for when I drag myself out in the morning.

Cheers
kev

[super_simian]

As an Australian who no chills, I'll just chime in here. I no chill, as do many other local brewers, because water is too precious to be run down the drain around here. You can no chill in the boiler, or in the FV but the purpose of using a cube is that it is full to the brim and can be rolled around, so the pasteurising temperature wort touches every single square inch. Also, when pouring and pitching, break material can be left behind in the cube, and it also means you can brew when you have the time, and pour+pitch when you have the space (in terms of free fermenters and/or fridge space.) I've left full cubes for a week or two at a time before pitching, and as long as they were sealed hot, there's no worries whatsoever. Try doing that in a boiler! That said, if the process works for you another way, it works...

[Goulders]

Thanks all.

I like the idea of no chill cubes because it means I can pitch when I want and not immediately the next day. Also the air is squeezed out (can't do that in the boiler/FV) meaning the wort can be stored for longer. I could then put the cube outside to cool down and seems better than leaving wort in a boiler with an inquisitive 5 year old and a wife saying "when are you going to move that?"!

Also as super_simian says the cold break can be left behind - I could do this by siphoning into the FV.

The other ways obviously work but for me, because of time issues, the NC cubes could be a way to go.

Thanks for your comments

Jon

[mrmojorisin]

Very helpful, I'm just getting my kit together for BIAB and have been wondering about how to go about NC, think I'll start cooling in the FV and should it become necessary buy a cube.

Thanks for the fleabay link as well.

[simco999]

Just a quick warning here guys. Only do no chill in an FV with a screw top lid - I tried shaking my FV with hot wort in it to sterilise the clip on lid.

Result - the lid flew off and hot wort was sprayed all over me. I know - what a prat - but it seemed like a good idea at the time. Anyway I often chill in the FV overnight without shaking it - just make sure the lid is sanitised. So far after about 6 brews no probs.

[mirogster]

Guys, what kind of vessels/containers suit to be the best and you're using? As far as I understand, they have to be some foodgrade plastic jerrycan lookalikes? Like link of OP suggested? What lid would be the best? I really love idea of using those cubes, with careful sanitisation/sterilisation, all should be ok.

[jonnyt]

I've no chilled four BIABs by simply sanitising the FV and adding the hot wort, allowing to cool (only a few hours in a cold water bath) then pitching the yeast.
Absolutely no problems to date but I have been dropping hot wort 3 feet into the FV which I now understand is a bad thing so I have purchased some food grade tubing to avoid this in future.

I have also bought a cube for further flexibility.

[lambert]

Just a couple of observations regarding No Chilling from my personal experience.
1. The containers like those suggested by Goulders is perfect. Make sure that it's food grade (HDPE). I would also suggest ordering some extra caps as I've found that the sealing ring in the cap wears out after the 2-3rd time usage. I've got my cubes of ebay and ordered seperate lids for around 40p each.
2. I've used 10 liter and 20 liter containers and found they you can squeeze in about 2 liters more than the specified size.
3. I transfer the hot wort to the cube, close it up and turn it upside down for 15-20 minutes. The hot wort sanitize/sterilise all the surfaces in the cube. I do treat my cubes with either Starsan or Videne - just to make extra sure.
4. I've used the following setup this weekend for transferring the hot wort to the cube and it's the best transfer setup I've used so far. Got this from Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0012MEKYW) and removed the pipe that came with it. Found that 1/2" and 3/8" SILICONE (PVC tube cannot take the heat) tubing fits the syphon. I've used this setup twice this weekend and I'm really impressed - the syphon just makes a hell of a noise once it gets going. I got very little break material into the cubes which is a bonus.
5. I've also converted some of the old cube caps to fermenter caps - drilled a 10mm hole in the top, put in one of those black grommets that you find on the lids of the plastic fermenter tubs and put in an airlock. That way I use the cube as the fermenter too - just pitch the yeast and put on the adapted cap. The only issue is aerating the wort. I guess that the most acceptable option would be use an aeration stone. I open the cube prior to pitching the yeast, get some air in, close the cap again and then shake like mad. Repeat this a couple of times. It works best if your brew length is 1-2 liters less than the official size of the container (i.e. 18 liters for a 20 liter container). This also give your enough headspace for krausen.

Hope some if the above is helpful!
Lambert

[potatoes]

4. I've used the following setup this weekend for transferring the hot wort to the cube and it's the best transfer setup I've used so far. Got this from Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0012MEKYW) and removed the pipe that came with it. Found that 1/2" and 3/8" SILICONE (PVC tube cannot take the heat) tubing fits the syphon. I've used this setup twice this weekend and I'm really impressed - the syphon just makes a hell of a noise once it gets going. I got very little break material into the cubes which is a bonus.
Lambert

This looks really interesting. Is there any problem with cleaning the Jiggle sphyon? Does the wort kind of get stuck in it?

[lambert]

This looks really interesting. Is there any problem with cleaning the Jiggle sphyon? Does the wort kind of get stuck in it?

Hi potatoes
I've had no issues with the jiggler the two times I used it. The opening diameter of the jiggler is about 7mm so you need something really big in the wort to get stuck. I do hope that the jiggler last (the Amazon reviews are not great) because it's easiest wort transfer I've done. It was suggested to me by aBIAB'er on another site.

I just dumped the jiggler in starsan before use. Cleaned it out with hot water under a running tap. Very easy.

Oh, maybe I should add that I use a hop sock so I haven't got any hops in my trub! I also create a strong whirlpool after flameout and leave it to "whirl" for 10 minutes or so. I've found that a whirlpool is a waste of time in my 15 liter pot (28cm diameter) but it works great in my big 45cm pot.
Cheers,
lambert

[potatoes]

Cheers, I might look into buying one of those. I saw a you tube clip and they look simple to use.

Dan

[Jocky]

I'm planning on stepping up from kits soon to methods that require boiling, but running so much water down the drain for the sake of chilling bothers me though, so I've been trying to understand the method and science behind no chill brewing.

To correct a couple of things written in this thread:

I don't understand the no-chill in a cube idea: Is it not easier to get wort into the FV and seal it into the FV as quickly as possible? It can no-chill just as easily in the FV; if you have an FV with a good airtight lid (the youngs screwtop ones are good!) it can be shaken to allow the hot wort to scald it in the same way as a cube. As long as the seal is good and the FV is disinfected initially, no cube+no chill =no problem!

Alternatively there is nothing to stop you removing your hops from the wort (using a hopsock), placing the lid on the Buffalo and placing cling wrap or foil over the lid to render it as air tight as possible

The idea is to fill your no chill container up so that the near boiling wort touches everything to make it sterile. It needs to keep touching everything (some bugs require several minutes at high temperature to kill them) so you have to squeeze out any excess air to help this (I believe that the air can also be the cause infections, or at least give them an air source to grow with).

Shaking a container won't work. Shaking a container full of 25 litres of near boiling wort is idiotic.

You also really need to have a screwtop container that is made of food grade HDPE. As the wort cools, it contracts, and will deform your container, so it needs to be strong enough to stand up to this - many FVs are not, and anything that doesn't have a very tightly sealing top may cause the top to pop off and draw in air to infect your beer.

[Goulders]

I looked into no-chill very carefully too.

Regarding the air, you will see from my AG#3 post on the Brewdays section that there is air in my container. The cubes are pretty robust and almost impossible to squeeze all the air out - certainly with mine anyway, trust me I have tried! With scalding hot liquid in the container I am not worried about this. I tip onto its lid and then all sides for 10 minutes each to ensure that the wort touches everything. Any sign of infection would be gases being produced and expanding the container (so I have read). Long-term I would say a cube would be better for storage but if no-chilling overnight, then many people have used other methods such as Valley with no ill effects.

The beauty of the cube for me is that I can do the brew and prepare a yeast starter and then pitch when ready. For example I am culturing a hop back yeast from summer lightning. The brew was last Friday, but I cultured from 2 bottles into 200ml on Sunday, and stepped this up into 1l last night. I will then step up into 2l when that is ready in a couple of days, so will probably pitch on Sunday.

The method works for thousands of others so can't be too bad!