Help Needed

[bigstig]

hello
Well, i am in need of some help please. i have started brewing about 9 months ago with wilko's Kits and made around 8 kits and everyone that i did was frankly crap ie got the homebrew taste and ended up down the drain. So i thought i would have a go at BIAB just small brews on the gas stove like 5-6 litres and even a those have ended up with a funny taste and gone down the drain. I have a undercounter fridge and inkbird to control fermentation temp (19-20deg) I also use VWP and Milton to clean all my stuff and still get that aftertaste. I am THINKING OF QUITING out of frustration but was wondering First if there is someone around the WALSALL area who i could go and see and take one of my bottles for a taste test to maybe see where i am going wrong and possibly watch a brew day also. i don't mind traveling if it aint to far SO around 25 mile radius of Walsall would be Great
I am really getting p****d of at the moment and feel like i am going round in circles
thank you
tony

[Cobnut]

See if you can find a local HB club.

If you can, take a couple of bottles along and they should be able to offer you some advice.

You will probably also find someone there who would be happy to let you watch them brew (even stir their mash ).

Also, look up off flavours in beer and see if you can work out which off flavour you're getting. That can help you to pin point where you are going off track.

Keep it up; it will be worth it!

Edit: Look here: http://www.midlandscraftbrewers.org.uk/about/4594382405

[Eric]

hello
Well, i am in need of some help please. i have started brewing about 9 months ago with wilko's Kits and made around 8 kits and everyone that i did was frankly crap ie got the homebrew taste and ended up down the drain. So i thought i would have a go at BIAB just small brews on the gas stove like 5-6 litres and even a those have ended up with a funny taste and gone down the drain. I have a undercounter fridge and inkbird to control fermentation temp (19-20deg) I also use VWP and Milton to clean all my stuff and still get that aftertaste. I am THINKING OF QUITING out of frustration but was wondering First if there is someone around the WALSALL area who i could go and see and take one of my bottles for a taste test to maybe see where i am going wrong and possibly watch a brew day also. i don't mind traveling if it aint to far SO around 25 mile radius of Walsall would be Great
I am really getting p****d of at the moment and feel like i am going round in circles
thank you
tony

From the above there is some fundamental problem which affects both kits and all grain. To assess your taste, please tell me of a favourite commercial beer of yours that I would know.

You have obviously gone to some expense, so it would be a tragedy to give up. Milton might be a good sanitiser for milk in feeding bottles, but not sure for beer which has an array of delicate flavours. 2 litres of thin bleach currently costs 38P for 2 litres from Asda and a cupful in 5 gallons of clean water will sanitise clean vessels in 20 minutes that should then be rinsed thoroughly. All things that make contact with wort or beer must be clean and sanitised in similar way. Yeast should be treated with care if ever reclaimed and repitched.

Looked at water for Walsall South and while it isn't ideal for all grain pale beers, it shouldn't make any brew to be thought in need of being dumped.

What do you think you can taste in your beer?

[Nitro Jim]

Bigstig/Tony - I brew mainly using Wilko kits and don't have any problems. Let us know your method and maybe the community can help you out. I have done in excess of 80 kits and only lost one for which I used a pressure barrel, I prefer to bottle my beers.
Out of interest, did you use brewing sugar, granulated or something else? Of course, it may be your water that is causing the problem... That is a whole different ball game.

In case anyone has posted in the meantime, I was distracted before finalising and posting so be gentle with me if this is the case.

[f00b4r]

I think you are getting some sound advice above but I also have one more suggestion. Don’t be greedy when transferring from fv to bottling bucket (if using) or directly to bottle/keg. You want to make sure the yeast have flocculated and then are left behind, some do not have a pleasant taste.
Are you using a syphon or bottling wand on a tap to bottle?

I’m also a big fan of having others try your beer and brewing with others too, it is a good way to improve and pick up good habits/tips ( hopefully not bad ones ). It is surprising what doesn’t get mentioned when people give a “full breakdown” of their process.

[bigstig]

Thank You all for the Advice/Reply's
My Process is Soak FV with Milton for around 10-15mins washout with clean water Boil Grain Bag for 10 mins also and wash with cold tap water.
i gather my mash water Volume and add half Camden Tablet for Floride the night before
PUT mash water in Stock Pot and Bring To Mash TEMP ,add bag and Grains Mash for 1 Hour Sparge over BAG
Bring Wort to Boiling for 1Hour adding Hops @60 -30 -10 mins then Hopstand for 15-20mins
Cool stock pot in the sink to 20c while cooling put yeast into 30c water for 30 mins stirring at 15mins.
Transfere wort to FV add yeast then put in Fridge Set Inkbird to 20 c and wait 10 to 14 days
Bottling Wash Bottles in Milton solution for 10-15 mins then thorough wash out and DRIP DRY over the Bath then add carbonation Drops 2 to each
550ml bottle ,USING a Cleaned Bottling Wand again with Milton and Thorough rinse and applied to FV, bottle the FV Contents then Cap
WITH Milton Cleaned And washed Caps then clean up. Leave Bottles for 10 days in Spare Bedroom, then into THE Outside Shed FOR 10
Days. OPEN one up And the distinct Homebrew Taste.
I am going to try again ,but am getting ph strips and some Lactic Acid and gypsum just incase its a PH Issue .
I dont normally let things beat me but this is so frustrating and i seem to be going round in circles. I have even bought a Didi-Boil not been
used as i cant see the point in making larger amounts of brew to go down the drain.

[Top Cat]

Don’t give up, you’re into this wonderfully satisfying hobby well and truly!
I had a twenty five year rest from home brewing but when I retired my daughter bought me a starter kit and I soon got the bug again.
I restarted doing the liquid kits that were supplied, fortunately they were top end of the market and you didn’t have to add any sugar. I then went to dry kits to see how things had moved on from the eighties.
As I used to be a grain brewer, I soon collected some equipment and was on my way, I then joined JBK and have never looked back.
My water supply (South Staffs) is probably the same as yours, and I find using a carbon filter I have better brewing results.
I am situated near Oldbury, which as you are probably aware is around 7-8 miles from Walsall. I will be glad to help if you need it.

[IPA]

As Eric said Milton is fine for cleaning babies bottles not brewing equipment. Try a chlorine based cleaner/sanitiser and rinse after. Any residual chlorine will give your beer a taste of Dettol !!!!

[MashBag]

hello
Well, i am in need of some help please. i have started brewing about 9 months ago with wilko's Kits and made around 8 kits and everyone that i did was frankly crap ie got the homebrew taste and ended up down the drain. So i thought i would have a go at BIAB just small brews on the gas stove like 5-6 litres and even a those have ended up with a funny taste and gone down the drain. I have a undercounter fridge and inkbird to control fermentation temp (19-20deg) I also use VWP and Milton to clean all my stuff and still get that aftertaste. I am THINKING OF QUITING out of frustration but was wondering First if there is someone around the WALSALL area who i could go and see and take one of my bottles for a taste test to maybe see where i am going wrong and possibly watch a brew day also. i don't mind traveling if it aint to far SO around 25 mile radius of Walsall would be Great
I am really getting p****d of at the moment and feel like i am going round in circles
thank you
tony

Can you describe the taste?

[Nitro Jim]

I reckon the Milton could be the problem, why not try a "No-rinse" sanitiser - that's what I use and it saves on water!

[bigstig]

Again thank you for your reples
I asked my wife what she thought the after taste tasted like and she said along the lines of sour milk,so my plan is to ditch the Milton and as advised use a cheap Bleach and clean all my plastic stuff and use a no rinse sanitiser and try again..Also going to buy some Ph strips to check the mash and adjust as required using gypsum and Lactic acid that are on the way. Will keep you posted with the results in the future

[Eric]

Again thank you for your reples
I asked my wife what she thought the after taste tasted like and she said along the lines of sour milk,so my plan is to ditch the Milton and as advised use a cheap Bleach and clean all my plastic stuff and use a no rinse sanitiser and try again..Also going to buy some Ph strips to check the mash and adjust as required using gypsum and Lactic acid that are on the way. Will keep you posted with the results in the future

Bleach is not a cleaner. It might appear to clean items, but most of what you see in such cases is colour bleaching while the contaminant remains present. By all means use a no rinse sanitiser, but in a country with sanitary water supply network, like UK, don't be fooled into buying items because they are well respected in countries with less sanitary water supplies. I don't and won't use Starsan and many of its users have not read and understood its limitations.

Good luck with the pH strips and lactic acid, it looks like you are destined to take the American pH-centric route. Mash pH is important, but ranked amongst all other important aspects in brewing, it comes relatively low on that scale. Getting all other matters correct will result in pH being inevitably in the correct range, as was found when it became possible to measure pH in a brewery a century ago. It is relatively easy to adjust mash pH, yet need to dump the resulting beer, as happened with your kit beers that probably used properly made malt extract.

If mash or wort pH is too high, your beer will be astringent from tannins and silicates that didn't remain with the grains in the mash. If mash or wort pH is too low, conversion time can exceed mash duration, producing less fermentable wort making the beer sweeter and less alcoholic. When you are making drinkable beer, but with either of the aforementioned faults, then is time to delve into mash pH to find what you might do for liquor treatment, not just throw lactic acid at the mash until it measures pH x.yz.

I'm sorry if that was a little blunt, but you've invested a lot for your brewing. Beer is relatively difficult to infect, but easy to spoil. It's something we only occasionally read on JBK, probably because of its wealth of knowledge. Clean your equipment gently, but thoroughly. Sanitise and rinse it with clean water shortly before it is used and keep it in a clean and well ventilated space until it is bottled or casked.

[MashBag]

Agreed...

If in doubt make one change at a time... What you won't know what it was.

I would concentrate on hygiene, not necessarily bleach I prefer TFR. If in doubt steam or replace cheap plastic items (hoses etc). Suspect any taps they are a regular offender.

[IPA]

Again thank you for your reples
I asked my wife what she thought the after taste tasted like and she said along the lines of sour milk,so my plan is to ditch the Milton and as advised use a cheap Bleach and clean all my plastic stuff and use a no rinse sanitiser and try again..Also going to buy some Ph strips to check the mash and adjust as required using gypsum and Lactic acid that are on the way. Will keep you posted with the results in the future

Bleach is not a cleaner. It might appear to clean items, but most of what you see in such cases is colour bleaching while the contaminant remains present. By all means use a no rinse sanitiser, but in a country with sanitary water supply network, like UK, don't be fooled into buying items because they are well respected in countries with less sanitary water supplies. I don't and won't use Starsan and many of its users have not read and understood its limitations.

Good luck with the pH strips and lactic acid, it looks like you are destined to take the American pH-centric route. Mash pH is important, but ranked amongst all other important aspects in brewing, it comes relatively low on that scale. Getting all other matters correct will result in pH being inevitably in the correct range, as was found when it became possible to measure pH in a brewery a century ago. It is relatively easy to adjust mash pH, yet need to dump the resulting beer, as happened with your kit beers that probably used properly made malt extract.

If mash or wort pH is too high, your beer will be astringent from tannins and silicates that didn't remain with the grains in the mash. If mash or wort pH is too low, conversion time can exceed mash duration, producing less fermentable wort making the beer sweeter and less alcoholic. When you are making drinkable beer, but with either of the aforementioned faults, then is time to delve into mash pH to find what you might do for liquor treatment, not just throw lactic acid at the mash until it measures pH x.yz.

I'm sorry if that was a little blunt, but you've invested a lot for your brewing. Beer is relatively difficult to infect, but easy to spoil. It's something we only occasionally read on JBK, probably because of its wealth of knowledge. Clean your equipment gently, but thoroughly. Sanitise and rinse it with clean water shortly before it is used and keep it in a clean and well ventilated space until it is bottled or casked.

Eric I am amazed that you said bleach is not a cleaner !

[guypettigrew]

I don't and won't use Starsan and many of its users have not read and understood its limitations.

Goodness, Eric, didn't realise you were so anti Starsan. Suits me well. No brews lost to bacterial infection since I started using it a good few years ago.

Guy