Help Needed

[Eric]

Hi Ian, I would advise using bleach to sanitise a bottle, but I wouldn't suggest using it to remove the growth one gets at the bottom of a bottle that has not been properly rinsed after the last lot of beer was drank, a situation with which I believe you are at times familiar.

Yes Guy, as I wrote in the last paragraph in that same post, Beer is relatively difficult to infect, but easy to spoil. I don't trust it. My no rinse sanitiser is peracetic acid, the stuff UK uses on chickens and the like in place of chlorine. It kills small organisms on contact, but does need handling and storing with care and caution. Starsan doesn't meet either standard.

[An Ankoù]

Hi Bigstig,
I hope you haven't given up yet. Milton is a b leach (chlorine) based cleaner and I think VWP is too. Chlorine-based cleaners are great for cleaning and sterilising your kit and I use them all the time in the form of ordinary, thin bleach- diluted. But if the slightest trace gets into your boiling kettle, it'll ruin the beer as it reacts with the phenols in the hops to form chlorophenols which have a very low taste threshold.
Fortunately, it is very easy to remove (before, but not after). You simpley need to rinse everything that has been in contact with a chlorine-based cleaner with a dilute solution of sodium metabusuphite (or Campden tablets) and it'll kill the chlorine dead, immediately.
Certainly worth trying. If that doesn't work then something else is causing the off-flavour.

[bigstig]

Hi AN Ankou
No i haven't given in after reading the Posts i decided clean everything with a steralising solution and No rinse sanitiser twice, proceeded by a very vigorous rinse (MILTON has now been binned) I have done another Brew just 10 litres of a SMASH using Citra Hops and a Gervain Yeast from Wilko's and is now sitting in the Fridge at 19c for another 12 days , going to clean my bottles and Tops with The same Steraliser and sanitiser and bottle then 2weeks in the spare bedroom then 2weeks in the brick shed and see how it goes from there. I have bought myself the Digi-Boil 35l and cleaned that with Sodium Percarbonate and TSP 3-1 RATIO and brewed in that this time also bought a new BAG so will see how it goes. I may of overdone the Hops a little but that don't matter to much as i am more concerned with eradicating the aftertaste AT THE MOMENT just to make it drinkable. It is a Learning curve though i must admit?
Thank you for taking the time to reply also.
kindest regards

[An Ankoù]

All the best. I hope you've cracked it this time. It's so disheartening to have to through away a brew.

[Meatymc]

No i haven't given in

Hi Bigstig

Only just seen this so a bit late to the table. Great to hear you are persevering although as soon as you get your first 'acceptable' beer you'll be hooked in any case

I just wanted to add one thing and that's your bit about rehydrating the yeast at 30C. Personally, I'd say that was too high although you see it mentioned as the top end of the 'acceptable range' in many places.

I'd keep it down to nearer 20C so the yeast is in the same range for when you pitch it. I'm not saying that's the cause of your issue however - just think it's better practice and certainly avoids the chance of unintentionally going over 30C which could well cause problems.

By the way, this is good source to help identify off flavours etc but let's hope you never need it:

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/off-flavours/

[MashBag]

No i haven't given in after reading the Posts i decided clean everything with a steralising solution.

Excellent news. There is no one way, you need to find yours. Please keep us posted.

It is always about learning, everyday keep asking the questions and the answers will come.

Brewing beer is not toxic, taste it all the way along. It will help you understand what is going on and when.

If this cleaning protocol doesn't work for you, please try stuff without chlorine. And rinse. Just my tuppence.

Don't get hung up about yeast.
This is direct quote from lallemand one of the largest yeast manufacturers.

"Sprinkle the yeast on the surface of 10 times its weight in clean, sterilized water at 30-35°C (86- 95F). - Leave it undisturbed for 15 minutes, stir gently to suspend yeast completely. - Leave it for 5 more minutes at 30-35°C (86- 95F)."

There is also a great pdf on the subject.
search " rehydration beer yeast best practice "

[Meatymc]

Don't get hung up about yeast.
This is direct quote from lallemand one of the largest yeast manufacturers.
"Sprinkle the yeast on the surface of 10 times its weight in clean, sterilized water at 30-35°C (86- 95F). - Leave it undisturbed for 15 minutes, stir gently to suspend yeast completely. - Leave it for 5 more minutes at 30-35°C (86- 95F)."

Bloody hell Mashbag - based on that looks like I need to do yet more digging!

I'm facing up to binning only the 2nd out of 177 all grain brews I've done (this was brew 174) which just isn't right. Very slight sulphur tinge and a tang I can only describe as possibly metallic. The other lost one was about brew 6 I think but very early on.

Gone through everything and the only thing I can't remember doing is 'formally' testing the temp of the sterilised water before introducing a 2nd generation (1 of 2) Proper Job scavenge - was over 38C when checked, left it a bit and then just whacked the scavenge in. Very slow to kick off but got there in the end but poor krausen etc.

I'm currently fermenting using the other scavenged sample taken at the same time and off like a rocket etc!

Had hoped I'd found the cause but maybe not. OR could it be dried yeast tolerates initial higher temp better and I've simply stressed mine with it already in suspension?

[MashBag]

Don't confuse the temps and the steps.

A rehydration, a starter and a fermentation are different.

[Meatymc]

A rehydration, a starter and a fermentation are different.

Gee - thanks Mashbag, I hadn't realised!!!!!!!!!!

I would just add that Safale recommend 25-29C for rehydration so a good bit below Lallemand and a hell of a difference if you take the lower end of the former and the upper end of the latter! You have to assume therefore using one 'instruction' with the others yeast will have a detrimental impact?

[MashBag]

I would go with "not optimal" rather than " will have a detrimental effect"

There are many ways to skin a yeast

[guypettigrew]

Does dried yeast really need rehydrating?

I suspect this is one of those home brewing myths which has been perpetuated by repeat posts over the years.

A few years ago I had the privilege of spending a day with a micro brewer. They used dried yeast, Safale 05, I think. It was just poured straight onto the wort.

And a home brew shop owner told me a dried yeast manufacturer (can't remember which) had told him the only difference with rehydrated yeast was the fermentation started about 30 minutes earlier.

I'm currently trying out a Young's APA beer kit. No requirement to rehydrate the yeast, just sprinkle it on the wort and gently stir in.

So, I think dried yeast rehydration is an unnecessary step.

Guy

[MashBag]

A myth from the manufacturers instructions?

Each to there own, TBH I sprinkle & wait 15 before whisking.

[WalesAles]

There are many ways to skin a yeast

Mash,
Why would you want to skin a yeast?
I thought they were tiny, tiny, tiny furry things.
Bloody hard to hold onto to get their skin off, let alone the fur!

WA

[MashBag]

Skinning the yeast is where the magic happens.

[bigstig]

Hi All
Just a quick update. Having reviewed my cleaning process, I have done a small Mash around 7 litres and fermented this for 14 days at a consistant 19c and was bottled the other day og 1.054 sg 1.010. I did taste the beer out of the jar you put the hydrometer in for checking the sg and to be honest it did taste like beer WITH NO After flavour which was what i was after TBH. So at the MOMENT i have 12 bottles of what i think will be drinkable beer, which will be sitting in the Spare Bedroom for another week and Half, followed by 2+ weeks in the shed so FOLLOWED THE 2+2+2 rule. Now i know i have a long long way to go to brew good beer but FOR ME JUST NOW will be a result to get something drinkable.
Just like to say thank you to all those that replyed to this post for your help and will let you all know in around 3-4 weeks how i get on with my first taste.
Thank You