Using a pub cask
- DeGarre
- Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
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- Location: County Durham
Re: Using a pub cask
Egg white is also used in cooking to clear/clarify broth or stock.
Re: Using a pub cask
i totally disagree mate ive done this thousands of times its good eggs 95% of the time its only been a problem when the beers gone down too far....... and i honestly think 1.2 volumes isnt enough condition, id want 1.3 after venting!greenxpaddy wrote:2 gravity points off FG is too much. You may get a popper. Get to FG and prime to 1.2 vols CO2
these boys know a thing or twohttp://www.inndoctor.co.uk/
Re: Using a pub cask
Hi guys,
I made this blog several years ago, then never updated it. Still, it answers most of the questions in this thread regarding cask conditioning homebrew. You guys are lucky though. Why don't you just go down to your local and ask a few questions of the cellarman?
A few things to keep in mind if you look at the blog
-I don't use as much priming sugar anymore. I use 28g per pin.
-Conditioning is definitely yeast dependent. Or, I should say the amount of conditioning, and in turn the amount of fobbing you get. In my experience that also seems to affect how long the beer remains in good condition. I find that the more conditioning i get, the more fobbing and the more explosive the venting is, the beer tends to be better, BUT and this is a big BUT, the beer doesn't seem to keep as long! My favorite English yeast for bitter is WLP02. It drops fast in the cask, and produces perfect conditioning, but is never explosive at venting. I lose very little beer with it, and the beers tend to stay drinkable for around 4 weeks with a breather. WLP23 is almost the opposite. Explosive venting and the beer only keeps for 2 weeks max. Same with WLP001. Yes, maybe, its attenuating that extra little bit in cask to cause the explosion and oxygenating a little too much from losing beer at venting? Don't know. The actual conditioning in the beer remains the same, but the flavor goes downhill faster the more explosive the venting is. Its somehow related.
Anyway, here is the blog. Any questions, ask away!
http://caskaleathome.blogspot.com/
I made this blog several years ago, then never updated it. Still, it answers most of the questions in this thread regarding cask conditioning homebrew. You guys are lucky though. Why don't you just go down to your local and ask a few questions of the cellarman?
A few things to keep in mind if you look at the blog
-I don't use as much priming sugar anymore. I use 28g per pin.
-Conditioning is definitely yeast dependent. Or, I should say the amount of conditioning, and in turn the amount of fobbing you get. In my experience that also seems to affect how long the beer remains in good condition. I find that the more conditioning i get, the more fobbing and the more explosive the venting is, the beer tends to be better, BUT and this is a big BUT, the beer doesn't seem to keep as long! My favorite English yeast for bitter is WLP02. It drops fast in the cask, and produces perfect conditioning, but is never explosive at venting. I lose very little beer with it, and the beers tend to stay drinkable for around 4 weeks with a breather. WLP23 is almost the opposite. Explosive venting and the beer only keeps for 2 weeks max. Same with WLP001. Yes, maybe, its attenuating that extra little bit in cask to cause the explosion and oxygenating a little too much from losing beer at venting? Don't know. The actual conditioning in the beer remains the same, but the flavor goes downhill faster the more explosive the venting is. Its somehow related.
Anyway, here is the blog. Any questions, ask away!
http://caskaleathome.blogspot.com/
Re: Using a pub cask
Speaking as someone who has had two poppers in a household situation I think my advice is the best for those likely to be reading this post. If you have a hose down floor and refrigerated storage then yes your suggestion gives a better level of condition.critch wrote:i totally disagree mate ive done this thousands of times its good eggs 95% of the time its only been a problem when the beers gone down too far....... and i honestly think 1.2 volumes isnt enough condition, id want 1.3 after venting!greenxpaddy wrote:2 gravity points off FG is too much. You may get a popper. Get to FG and prime to 1.2 vols CO2
these boys know a thing or twohttp://www.inndoctor.co.uk/
I've just done some calcs. See if you agree. 2 gravity points equals 1.65 vols. at cellar temp this is a little over what I have been told as the cask declared tolerance of 5psi. If the cask happens to rise to 18c the psi is nearly three times that.
I've done probably 100 or so casks and had two pop. That's better than 98%. However, the inconvenience to me means I now aim for 100% stability.
Re: Using a pub cask
Any ideas on why my casks don't last as long if I get explosive venting?greenxpaddy wrote:Speaking as someone who has had two poppers in a household situation I think my advice is the best for those likely to be reading this post. If you have a hose down floor and refrigerated storage then yes your suggestion gives a better level of condition.critch wrote:i totally disagree mate ive done this thousands of times its good eggs 95% of the time its only been a problem when the beers gone down too far....... and i honestly think 1.2 volumes isnt enough condition, id want 1.3 after venting!greenxpaddy wrote:2 gravity points off FG is too much. You may get a popper. Get to FG and prime to 1.2 vols CO2
these boys know a thing or twohttp://www.inndoctor.co.uk/
I've just done some calcs. See if you agree. 2 gravity points equals 1.65 vols. at cellar temp this is a little over what I have been told as the cask declared tolerance of 5psi. If the cask happens to rise to 18c the psi is nearly three times that.
I've done probably 100 or so casks and had two pop. That's better than 98%. However, the inconvenience to me means I now aim for 100% stability.
On your comments regarding when to rack, that is exactly what makes cask conditioning so rewarding, interesting and challenging! I gave up racking the beer early because my results were so inconsistent. Clearly you've got a great system and are really in tune with your yeast. Very cool.
Cheers
Re: Using a pub cask
What do you mean by it doesn't last as long? For all we know, you get a beer explosion and in your sorrow proceed to drink the rest of the cask
Could be that when it vents you get a backblast of oxygen filling the void.
Out of interest critch, on the off chance that you "miss" the timing and need to prime, how much do you prime by and how much finnings and isinglass do you add?
I have a cask from an old project that I wouldn't mind using but I just don't fancy the "lottery" with getting it wrong and knackering a load of beer and I'm holding off buying a pin to use at the local until I know I can get it right.
Could be that when it vents you get a backblast of oxygen filling the void.
Out of interest critch, on the off chance that you "miss" the timing and need to prime, how much do you prime by and how much finnings and isinglass do you add?
I have a cask from an old project that I wouldn't mind using but I just don't fancy the "lottery" with getting it wrong and knackering a load of beer and I'm holding off buying a pin to use at the local until I know I can get it right.
Re: Using a pub cask
Yeah, its possible that its pulling in oxygen, but I doubt it. I tend to hard spile and/or hook up a breather as soon as venting slows down. Don't know what the issue is. It's not that big of a deal since I have a system down.darkonnis wrote:What do you mean by it doesn't last as long? For all we know, you get a beer explosion and in your sorrow proceed to drink the rest of the cask
Could be that when it vents you get a backblast of oxygen filling the void.
Out of interest critch, on the off chance that you "miss" the timing and need to prime, how much do you prime by and how much finnings and isinglass do you add?
I have a cask from an old project that I wouldn't mind using but I just don't fancy the "lottery" with getting it wrong and knackering a load of beer and I'm holding off buying a pin to use at the local until I know I can get it right.
Re: Using a pub cask
they reason they pop most often is using the wrong shive or keystone, different makes take different ones (hell different brewery plastics(cypherco) batches take different shives! we use the rankin no.2 keystone and the brewery plastics 3 band shive(although the rankin evo band c is good too)theyll fit the majority of cyphers and steels we have. well done on not popping 98% percent , hope its the same rate when youve done over 30,000 like we have
the brewery plastics(cyphers) will take a lot more than a pitiful 5psi, steels and g.p.s. casks even more, the reason he says nearly flat is that he dosent want any more law suits like he had on the old company name!
what i always have done when prepping a cask is breach shive with a hard spile,
replace with a soft spile immeadiately,let it vent excess gas
leave to vent where you want it for two days,check softpeg for blockages, replace if blocked
tap,leave a further 24 hours and hardpeg till service,
soft peg during service, or remove hardpeg! test for clarity,if clear serve!
replace hardpeg inbetween sessions an a-cask a-vent is a useful tool as is a mason soft/hardpeg
the brewery plastics(cyphers) will take a lot more than a pitiful 5psi, steels and g.p.s. casks even more, the reason he says nearly flat is that he dosent want any more law suits like he had on the old company name!
what i always have done when prepping a cask is breach shive with a hard spile,
replace with a soft spile immeadiately,let it vent excess gas
leave to vent where you want it for two days,check softpeg for blockages, replace if blocked
tap,leave a further 24 hours and hardpeg till service,
soft peg during service, or remove hardpeg! test for clarity,if clear serve!
replace hardpeg inbetween sessions an a-cask a-vent is a useful tool as is a mason soft/hardpeg
Re: Using a pub cask
It's a bloody nightmare. I got a load of shives and I noticed weeping. So got Rankin to send some samples . I've found the Green shives from Rankin the best but get this...all my casks are crusader stainless but the odd one the shive hole is marginally too small so have to use the old ones in those. Part of my problem is I don't fine until departure so I don't bang the shive *all* the way in as they can be a bugger to get off especially if you want to bang down the same one after fining.critch wrote:they reason they pop most often is using the wrong shive or keystone, different makes take different ones (hell different brewery plastics(cypherco) batches take different shives! we use the rankin no.2 keystone and the brewery plastics 3 band shive(although the rankin evo band c is good too)theyll fit the majority of cyphers and steels we have. well done on not popping 98%
So what trying to say is yes shive choice Is important. However, storing too warm once fully primed is also a problem. There are practical psi limits, aren't there Barney?
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Re: Using a pub cask
The only time I ever had a popper was due to an infection where the beer super attenuated and blew the shive. But within sane limits, a cask (with the right shive and keystone) will take a lot of pressure. Careful in hot weather though - that would worry me a bit...
Re: Using a pub cask
I have used casks for years as I am too lazy to bottle. The trick is to get the fermentation of the beer balanced with the amount you draw off. You can get beer out of the tap under its own pressure without letting too much air in. Need to leave a reasonable volume for the gas above the beer - so don't fill it to the brim.
A good trick a neighbour came up with is to fit a car tyre valve in the top of the cask bung- in place of the hard/soft spile. You can then use the valve to let air in if you need to. Have to put a cable tie or threaed nut on the outside of the bung round the valve as it is possible to knock it back into the cask- annoying! It is possible depending on temperature and all of the the above to get the 72 pints of beer to flow with maybe one re-priming. Aim is to keep a blanket of CO2 on top of the beer away from the air which you can vent with the tyre valve if fermentation is robust. Harder in the winter and seems harder with dark beers especially stout. Impossible if you have a lot of people drinking in a short time.
Far more controlled to use a cask breather but you need a regulator and a CO2 bottle as well as the breather - can get quite costly so I have resisted. Anybody have cheaper solutions? Soda-stream bottles also pretty pricey.
Very happy to find this forum. Cheers!
A good trick a neighbour came up with is to fit a car tyre valve in the top of the cask bung- in place of the hard/soft spile. You can then use the valve to let air in if you need to. Have to put a cable tie or threaed nut on the outside of the bung round the valve as it is possible to knock it back into the cask- annoying! It is possible depending on temperature and all of the the above to get the 72 pints of beer to flow with maybe one re-priming. Aim is to keep a blanket of CO2 on top of the beer away from the air which you can vent with the tyre valve if fermentation is robust. Harder in the winter and seems harder with dark beers especially stout. Impossible if you have a lot of people drinking in a short time.
Far more controlled to use a cask breather but you need a regulator and a CO2 bottle as well as the breather - can get quite costly so I have resisted. Anybody have cheaper solutions? Soda-stream bottles also pretty pricey.
Very happy to find this forum. Cheers!
Re: Using a pub cask
You've just joined in? Well, welcome
There's quite a lot written about "cask" in this forum. Not least (I obviously have a bias towards it!) my own "treatise" (download from "signature" below).
It was written with Corny Kegs in mind, but could easily be modified for a "Pub cask". I don't recommend "breathers" mainly because they can't work with Corni-kegs (Cornies need a scrap of pressure to be reliable at very low pressure ... and will not work with gravity dispense - needs a hand-pump). I champion LPG regulators, specifically the Clesse 50-150mbar (about 3/4PSI to 2PSI) ones with BSP ports, because they are much cheaper, very reliable (have to be to handle explosive gases) and retain a very low level of CO2 condition (breathers let it fritter away in a few days).
Don't mention "blanket" when talking of CO2 as it'll get you shot down! Gives the impression CO2 is not miscible with "air" and creates some kind of protective barrier because it's "heavier". I think most here know by now that all gases are totally miscible with each other and form no such "layers" beyond a few minutes. People might also question your use of "Pub cask": There's the possibility of encouraging theft of casks from outside Pubs .
There are those (not me) who champion collecting fermentation gas as a cheaper alternative to cylinders, but often use large mylar balloons as a reservoir instead.
There's quite a lot written about "cask" in this forum. Not least (I obviously have a bias towards it!) my own "treatise" (download from "signature" below).
It was written with Corny Kegs in mind, but could easily be modified for a "Pub cask". I don't recommend "breathers" mainly because they can't work with Corni-kegs (Cornies need a scrap of pressure to be reliable at very low pressure ... and will not work with gravity dispense - needs a hand-pump). I champion LPG regulators, specifically the Clesse 50-150mbar (about 3/4PSI to 2PSI) ones with BSP ports, because they are much cheaper, very reliable (have to be to handle explosive gases) and retain a very low level of CO2 condition (breathers let it fritter away in a few days).
Don't mention "blanket" when talking of CO2 as it'll get you shot down! Gives the impression CO2 is not miscible with "air" and creates some kind of protective barrier because it's "heavier". I think most here know by now that all gases are totally miscible with each other and form no such "layers" beyond a few minutes. People might also question your use of "Pub cask": There's the possibility of encouraging theft of casks from outside Pubs .
There are those (not me) who champion collecting fermentation gas as a cheaper alternative to cylinders, but often use large mylar balloons as a reservoir instead.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Re: Using a pub cask
Interesting - I will look at the LPG regulator thanks. I have a couple of casks both procured from pubs that have closed so no theft I promise. Will read the treatise with interest!
Point taken about the blanket. Must have been lucky over the last 20 years as I have never had a cask go off - always worry a bit when you need to use the tyre valve to let air in to get beer out - maybe the air here is especially pure! Highland air. The water is certainly very pure and soft..
Point taken about the blanket. Must have been lucky over the last 20 years as I have never had a cask go off - always worry a bit when you need to use the tyre valve to let air in to get beer out - maybe the air here is especially pure! Highland air. The water is certainly very pure and soft..