beer line length

A forum to discuss the various ways of getting beer into your glass.
paulg
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beer line length

Post by paulg » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:25 am

I know this has been discussed ad infinitum but here goes
I have a kegerator with a tower and flowcontrol inter tap on top.
i have the temp set to 11c and the pressure to 5psi which gives 1.5 volumes according to the carbonation charts.

I am getting foaming when dispensing using 14 feet of 1/4 internal diameter EVA barrier hose.

What are people who dispense at similar pressure/temp using?
the calculators say if I use 3/16 microbore pipe I need only a very short length,too short to reach the sankey keg.

tell me you line size and lengths

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IPA
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Re: beer line length

Post by IPA » Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:27 pm

60 cm with no gas connected until the beer stops flowing. Temperature 10 °C using a float takeoff. When the flow rate slows to a dribble give it a short burst of gas. Forget those 'Mercan' carbonisation calculators they only work with bottled beer and the line length calculators are even worse !
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

paulg
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Re: beer line length

Post by paulg » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:26 pm

my beers are always English milds,porters and bitters and I have found that at 11c and 6psi they carbonate to my liking.ie not to fizzy.
I currently have about 14 feet of 1/4 bore eva hose and the beer is rushing out of the tap.this hose supposedly drops 0.5 psi per foot
I am fairly confident the gas pressure is correct as I use a lpg regulator and digital pressure gauge.
this kegerator is new to me and firstly I want the beer to flow at a reasonable rate,Part of the foaming may be down to the high temperatures here at the moment @40c and not having a tower cooler.I am going to build one this week,but i wouldnt have thought it would affect the speed of flow that much.

paulg
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Re: beer line length

Post by paulg » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:31 pm

IPA wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Forget those 'Mercan' carbonisation calculators they only work with bottled beer and the line length calculators are even worse !
this is why i am asking for real life results.
If someone says I use 100 feet at 6psi and it works at least I hopefully have a realistic starting point, if not when my new beerline arrives I will use a very long length and cut back slowly

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Jocky
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Re: beer line length

Post by Jocky » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:05 pm

paulg wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:26 pm
my beers are always English milds,porters and bitters and I have found that at 11c and 6psi they carbonate to my liking.ie not to fizzy.
I currently have about 14 feet of 1/4 bore eva hose and the beer is rushing out of the tap.this hose supposedly drops 0.5 psi per foot
I am fairly confident the gas pressure is correct as I use a lpg regulator and digital pressure gauge.
this kegerator is new to me and firstly I want the beer to flow at a reasonable rate,Part of the foaming may be down to the high temperatures here at the moment @40c and not having a tower cooler.I am going to build one this week,but i wouldnt have thought it would affect the speed of flow that much.
Have you served with this type of tubing and the length before? What’s different to your previous setup?

While the lack of tower cooling will make a difference on higher carbonated beers, at that pressure I wouldn’t think that the beer would gush or foam at all, there’s barely enough carbonation to do so.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

paulg
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Re: beer line length

Post by paulg » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:13 pm

IPA wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:27 pm
60 cm with no gas connected until the beer stops flowing. Temperature 10 °C using a float takeoff. When the flow rate slows to a dribble give it a short burst of gas. Forget those 'Mercan' carbonisation calculators they only work with bottled beer and the line length calculators are even worse !
Ian when you say 60 cm what diameter,I assume 3/16 OD micro bore line.
I think I have found part of my problem the excess line is coiled on top of my keg and the air temp is about 17c with the kegerator set at 11c.The internal fan only runs when the compressor is running and I am guessing that the air stratifies and warms the beer in the long line coil therefor foam and that is why even extending the line does nothing for the foam.i am using 1/4 bore line and will try with 3/16 microbore when it arrives in a couple of days and the tower cooling fan will help circulate the air as well

paulg
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Re: beer line length

Post by paulg » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:31 pm

Jocky wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:05 pm
paulg wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:26 pm
my beers are always English milds,porters and bitters and I have found that at 11c and 6psi they carbonate to my liking.ie not to fizzy.
I currently have about 14 feet of 1/4 bore eva hose and the beer is rushing out of the tap.this hose supposedly drops 0.5 psi per foot
I am fairly confident the gas pressure is correct as I use a lpg regulator and digital pressure gauge.
this kegerator is new to me and firstly I want the beer to flow at a reasonable rate,Part of the foaming may be down to the high temperatures here at the moment @40c and not having a tower cooler.I am going to build one this week,but i wouldnt have thought it would affect the speed of flow that much.
Have you served with this type of tubing and the length before? What’s different to your previous setup?

While the lack of tower cooling will make a difference on higher carbonated beers, at that pressure I wouldn’t think that the beer would gush or foam at all, there’s barely enough carbonation to do so.
the kegerator is new to me,I was using an old commercial coke fridge which died and a handpump.I got fed up of wasting 1/2 pint every time I started a session.
I have posted some more information since your reply ,about air temp inside the fridge.The coke fridge had a fan running all the time so I had no issue.
i have found about 1 foot of micro bore line ,so I removed all but the piece in the tower and replaced about 12 foot of 1/4 ID pie with 1 foot micro bore and now it flows at a reasonable rate and I recon with the tower cooler fan I plan to get the air temp will be more even.

Unless anyone knows how a fan on the mangrove Jack Kegerator is wired so I can modify it to run all the time


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IPA
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Re: beer line length

Post by IPA » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:01 pm

paulg wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:13 pm
IPA wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:27 pm
60 cm with no gas connected until the beer stops flowing. Temperature 10 °C using a float takeoff. When the flow rate slows to a dribble give it a short burst of gas. Forget those 'Mercan' carbonisation calculators they only work with bottled beer and the line length calculators are even worse !
Ian when you say 60 cm what diameter,I assume 3/16 OD micro bore line.
I think I have found part of my problem the excess line is coiled on top of my keg and the air temp is about 17c with the kegerator set at 11c.The internal fan only runs when the compressor is running and I am guessing that the air stratifies and warms the beer in the long line coil therefor foam and that is why even extending the line does nothing for the foam.i am using 1/4 bore line and will try with 3/16 microbore when it arrives in a couple of days and the tower cooling fan will help circulate the air as well
I have just checked and they are 70 cm long 7mm id and 12mm od pvc rated at 3 bars. I have said this many many times, I also vowed never to say it again, but there is only one reason that beer comiing out the tap foams and that is because it is over carbonated. One more tip,if you are not already doing so, is use a float take off.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

paulg
Steady Drinker
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:56 pm
Location: Corfu,Greece formely Essex/Suffolk border UK

Re: beer line length

Post by paulg » Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:05 pm

IPA wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:01 pm
paulg wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:13 pm
IPA wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:27 pm
60 cm with no gas connected until the beer stops flowing. Temperature 10 °C using a float takeoff. When the flow rate slows to a dribble give it a short burst of gas. Forget those 'Mercan' carbonisation calculators they only work with bottled beer and the line length calculators are even worse !
Ian when you say 60 cm what diameter,I assume 3/16 OD micro bore line.
I think I have found part of my problem the excess line is coiled on top of my keg and the air temp is about 17c with the kegerator set at 11c.The internal fan only runs when the compressor is running and I am guessing that the air stratifies and warms the beer in the long line coil therefor foam and that is why even extending the line does nothing for the foam.i am using 1/4 bore line and will try with 3/16 microbore when it arrives in a couple of days and the tower cooling fan will help circulate the air as well
I have just checked and they are 70 cm long 7mm id and 12mm od pvc rated at 3 bars. I have said this many many times, I also vowed never to say it again, but there is only one reason that beer comiing out the tap foams and that is because it is over carbonated. One more tip,if you are not already doing so, is use a float take off.
I use sankey kegs,is it possible to fit float takeoff to them .The Spears are about 18mm diameter.I would imagine that even silicone tube that diameter would struggle to bend.Unless of course I can find a suitable stainless plumbing fitting that would reduce the spear to a realist diameter for the flexible tube

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IPA
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Re: beer line length

Post by IPA » Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:36 am

I think Keg Widget make a float take off for Sankey Kegs.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

paulg
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Location: Corfu,Greece formely Essex/Suffolk border UK

Re: beer line length

Post by paulg » Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:23 pm

IPA wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:36 am
I think Keg Widget make a float take off for Sankey Kegs.
thanks.Do you have a link?
I can only find cask widge on google

McMullan

Re: beer line length

Post by McMullan » Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:23 pm

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McMullan

Re: beer line length

Post by McMullan » Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:29 pm

Slightly more expensive overall, but these work very well too, in my experience. A tad more control relative to a modified Sankey set up, tbh.

paulg
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Re: beer line length

Post by paulg » Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:49 pm

McMullan wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:23 pm
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whats the peice that fits in the silicone tube that the float hose attaches to?

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