Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

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McMullan

Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by McMullan » Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:25 pm

Trefoyl wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:51 am
I’ve been using an aspirator / breather https://rlbs.ltd.uk/rlbs-cask-aspirator ... valve.html with a corny with my beer engine for years, starting with a low pressure LP regulator which works exactly the same way but much easier and cheaper to get in the US.
Sankey kegs were not available to homebrewers in the US unless you bought a pallet of them so I never tried one, but MoreBeer now carries them.

I see they do kegmenters too :wink:

McMullan

Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by McMullan » Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:04 pm

f00b4r wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:39 am
PeeBee wrote:
f00b4r wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:58 pm
That’s a nice hack ...
No it's not!

I did fart about with that "method" ... once. But my "soft spile" didn't look so pretty; it was just cotton-wool stuffed hard in a disconnect. But transferring the beer to a "intermediary" (that's what I call it in my "treatise") was a pain, and once the "spile" is used the "intermediary" cannot be moved: The space above the beer now contains oxygen but if not moved it takes time for the oxygen to trash the beer. Move the "intermediary" and the oxygen mixes into the remaining beer an trashes it in minutes.

Use a LPG regulator. They are not "poor-mans' breathers", for home-brewers they've proven to be much more than that.



For decades home-brewers have tried to emulate cask beers by attempting to copy what they do in Pubs. For decades home-brewers didn't bother to emulate cask beers because the copy-cat attempts failed! Do yourself a favour, read that "treatise" ("No ‘treatise’ required" indeed!); it might save a lot of wasted time; after all, it's the condensed results of decades of my wasted time (with some successes).
That is comparing apples and oranges though.
Very true. Soft spiles vent the cask, keg or bottle in a controlled way, especially when damp with sanitiser. Unlike cotton wool. In fact, if the soft spile is carefully pulled out after several hours venting (which should be done anyway) a release of pressure occurs. When no more pressure gets released (the soft spile might appear dry at this point) the ale is considered ready to be tested for serving or sealed (with a hard spile, removal of a disconnect or addition of a bottle cap, depending on what's being used) until serving. I store the mini keg at 12℃ then bung it under the beer engine when required. Connect the beer line disco to beer out, add the venting disconnect without the spile and pull a pint. I haven't noticed any problems with moving the beer or with noticeable oxidation. Although, admittedly, the rate of oxidation and my drinking behaviour tend to work on completely different time frames.

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by PeeBee » Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:23 pm

f00b4r wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:39 am
That is comparing apples and oranges though, you have no idea of the oxygen permeability versus a soft spile, it could be factors higher. Also there is no need to leave a headspace with oygen, especially with a plastic bottle (purge, cap on foam or just squeeze the bottle to remove it).
"Apples and Oranges"; I give you that, I wasn't thinking of using the bottles as "dispense" vessels (hell of a faff though, and what if you prepare too much, or too little?). Although the author of the suggestion spoils it in his following post "I transfer to a 2L or 5L mini keg ..." which is exactly what I thought was being suggested.

And I do have an idea of oxygen permeability of soft spiles: They are transparent to oxygen, we're not talking "semi-permeable membranes" here. Anyway, I was referring to moving rigid containers (like "mini-kegs") that have been partially emptied with a "soft-spile" in place (be it a "real" spile, a disconnect stuffed with cotton-wool, or a tube crammed with troll bum hairs). Which would require a pump, which the author of the OP hasn't got, which means I was out-of-order again bringing it up!
f00b4r wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:39 am
...
Low pressure in the beer is only part of the charm of cask beer, there is a great post by Graham Wheeler on here somewhere where he speaks about the transformations beer goes through from the semi-controlled oxidation; before it is ultimately ruined by the same process.
Yes, I'm a believer of "sub-spoiled" and it gets a mention in that (yawn) "treatise". But check out that RLBS link that "Trefoyl" posted:
Trefoyl wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:51 am
I’ve been using an aspirator / breather https://rlbs.ltd.uk/rlbs-cask-aspirator ... valve.html with a corny with my beer engine for years, starting with a low pressure LP regulator which works exactly the same way but much easier and cheaper to get in the US. ...
(Which then links "CAMRA April 2018 News" - "neutral on “cask breathers”). Which seems to imply CAMRA are not too bothered about it any longer; but I think they just caved in to Public (and Pub landlord) pressure?


Thanks for "quoting" the ramblings of a certain "McM". Because his posts are invisible to me, the quotes give me an opportunity to rant back! I think I'm handling the situation okay (so I'm self-deluded!), but Trolls are not particularly cuddly.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

McMullan

Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by McMullan » Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:49 pm

iu-26.jpeg
iu-26.jpeg (22.95 KiB) Viewed 3658 times

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by MashBag » Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:13 pm

McMullan wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:49 pm
iu-26.jpeg
Is that cuddly or Scary??

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by PeeBee » Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:27 pm

"If I catch that flippin' PeeBee ... "

Image
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by Trefoyl » Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:09 pm

If you get a beer engine you might want to look for a model that will allow the cylinder to be opened so it can dry out. I have an Angram which is always wet inside so I need to run sanitizer through it to keep it fresh when not in use.
Last edited by Trefoyl on Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sommeliers recommend that you swirl a glass of wine and inhale its bouquet before throwing it in the face of your enemy.

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by Trefoyl » Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:48 am

Image
Image

The stout spout adapter might help. I use it with CO2 so it’s only marginally better than a regular tap but with Nitrogen mix it might be nice. A beer engine mixes air, which is about 78% Nitrogen, into the pour.
Sommeliers recommend that you swirl a glass of wine and inhale its bouquet before throwing it in the face of your enemy.

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by PeeBee » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:25 pm

Trefoyl wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:48 am
... but with Nitrogen mix it might be nice. ...
Hi Trefyl. Not sure about that tap, but "standard" stout taps need to have components removed (restrictor plate bits) or you need very un-cask-like pressures to get more than a dribble through them. Dissolving N2 in beer needs the same un-cask-like pressures plus very un-cask-like cold temperatures to get it to dissolve in any appreciable quantity (it will dissolve in small quantities in water based liquids at warmer temperature - ask a diver suffering the "bends"!).

What happened to that troll piccie you posted? That was very, very scary; not the nudity, the subject! I have this idea that the moderators have slapped a "not visible before 9PM watershed" on it? Or "McM" has complained about any possible association with him (I couldn't go that far - that would be very serious and OTT "defamation of character" aimed at "McM"!)?




(Should we not see the piccie again, and you haven't seen it, it was a caricature of a recent US ex-president).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

McMullan

Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by McMullan » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:59 pm

Not my style, PeePee. As you well know :lol: I wear big boy's pants.

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by Trefoyl » Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:49 pm

I deleted the picture - too true to life. Shiver.
The nukatap/ Intertap stout faucet pours just fine with normal pressure and low natural condition. Whether the sparkler plate actually adds anything to the character though is debatable with just C02. Likewise, Lukr side pull faucets are the latest gimmick here
https://www.lukrfaucets.com/en/ and even though they have a sparkler attachment I honestly can’t tell the difference when the beer is served to me.
Sommeliers recommend that you swirl a glass of wine and inhale its bouquet before throwing it in the face of your enemy.

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by Binkie Huckaback » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:41 am

Is McMullan no longer a member? I wanyed to pick his brains about Sankey kegs as his Caskerator.

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by f00b4r » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:56 am

Binkie Huckaback wrote:Is McMullan no longer a member? I wanyed to pick his brains about Sankey kegs as his Caskerator.
He is on a month long ban, three weeks of which are still to run. There are other members on here using Sankey kegs though so feel free to ask away.

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Re: Cask 'style' from kegerator with flow control taps

Post by Cobnut » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:32 am

f00b4r wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:56 am
Binkie Huckaback wrote:Is McMullan no longer a member? I wanyed to pick his brains about Sankey kegs as his Caskerator.
He is on a month long ban, three weeks of which are still to run. There are other members on here using Sankey kegs though so feel free to ask away.
Does anyone really think it will make him bite his tongue anymore more frequently?

Sometimes I enjoy his barbs, but often feel that he goes rather too far :roll:
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