Conditioning and Bottling

[Matt12398]

Hi All,

After having a go at brewing cider and wine I wanted to have a go at my first batch of beer with a kit and then one day in future if I'm sucessful I might move on to extract, partial mash or maybe even AG. I expect these may be questions that have been asked before but I would be grateful of some explanation on the conditioning and bottling processes because from what I've read in online brewing guides there seems to be some inconsistencies or perhaps different preferences for how people carry out these stages.

After you have reached your final gravity I understand that you need to rack the fermented wort from the yeast sediment and transfer to a secondary fermentation vessel. Am I right in saying that you should store in another bucket or barrel intially before bottling or should I be taking the beer after the first week or so and putting it straight into bottles? Is priming necessary if you're producing an ale without any carbonation or is it necessary to do so even with an ale to improve the taste, head, etc.?

I've seen that there are pressure kegs that take CO2. Is this used to prevent oxidation or is this something that's necessary for lagers in order to add carbonation? If I follow the process I've described above of transferring to a secondary vessel for conditioning am I going to get oxidation if there's no CO2?

Do people generally feel that it's necessary to add finings during the conditioning phase?

I appreciate these may be stupid questions and that I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick on a few processes but I would be grateful of any advice you can give.

[gxprice]

Hi Matt,

Firstly, welcome I'll have a go at answering some of the questions although there are far more experienced brewers on here than me that will chime in also.

It's not critical to syphon off into a secondary fermentation vessel (fv), just preferable (in my opinion). You can syphon directly into bottles (having sterilised / prefilled each with 1/2 tsp of (normal) sugar) if you want to; qty depending on type of beer. Just avoid sucking up the bottom 1/2 cm of yeast at the bottom of the fv
Personally, I use a pressure barrel, dissolve the required sugar (for the whole batch), put it in and then syphon the beer directly on top. The dissolved sugar will therefore be dispersed evenly through the beer and the overall potential for a really messy syphoning session is reduced since the pressure barrel tap can be used to fill the bottles!

For the priming question, I wouldn't skip it. Perhaps a few do but you'll find most people prime. You can certainly cut down on the qty of sugar if you don't want anything fizzy though. Note also that you don't want oxygen on top of the beer or it will go off. This is also a function of CO2 (i.e. through priming) since it's heacier than air and therefore will sit right above the beer thereby protecting it.

I don't add finings (most don't I understand) - the beer clears just fine if left alone. If you do add finings, it's obviously more difficult to generate CO2 using a little sugar since you "fine" out the yeast which is what eats the sugar to create the CO2... If you are force-carbonating, perhaps fining is an option but I don't do this (perhaps other could comment) but force-carbonation would require additional (perhaps more expensive) equipment.

Best,

Gary.

[Matt12398]

Thanks a lot for the reply Gary.

Just to understand what you do then, do you leave it in a secondary FV for a bit and then bottle it. Essentially in my head that means ferment in primary FV, transfer to secondary FV to mature and then transfer into primed bottle/prime total volume and transfer into bottles? I didn't realise that you would prime ales because I figured that was only for lagers.

[Loafman]

Thanks a lot for the reply Gary.
Just to understand what you do then, do you leave it in a secondary FV for a bit and then bottle it. Essentially in my head that means ferment in primary FV, transfer to secondary FV to mature and then transfer into primed bottle/prime total volume and transfer into bottles? I didn't realise that you would prime ales because I figured that was only for lagers.

Hi Matt, most people do prime ales, but usually with around half the amount of sugar as you'd use for lager. The secondary FV is often used to make mixing in priming sugars easier. If you add them to the primary FV you would need to stir it in, therby disturbing the cake of crud that collects at the bottom of the FV. Transfering it to a second FV means the crud stays in the first FV, and the sugars will mix thoroughly when the beer is syphoned into the second FV. You will still have a cloudy beer at this stage, but it will contain a lot less yeast and waste products. And it's far more precise and less likely to cause issues than spooning sugar into each bottle.

I believe some people do leave the beer in a second FV to settle further sometimes (they don't prime at this stage though), although that is not a procedure that I practice.

[gxprice]

Thanks a lot for the reply Gary.

Just to understand what you do then, do you leave it in a secondary FV for a bit and then bottle it. Essentially in my head that means ferment in primary FV, transfer to secondary FV to mature and then transfer into primed bottle/prime total volume and transfer into bottles? I didn't realise that you would prime ales because I figured that was only for lagers.

The second part of the question has already been answered (in fact Loafman gave a great answer!) but for the question on the 2nd FV specific to me, I just use it as a "go-between" only (remove the main crud with the initial syphoning and ensure the sugar is evenly dispersed throughout the beer). It sits in the 2nd FV for no more than an hour at most. The trick is still related to patience though. Even if the primary ferment is finished in 10 days (for example), I always leave it sit there for another few days (i.e. 2.5 to 3 weeks in total) as more of the yeast in suspension will fall to the bottom thereby ensuring you introduce less to the bottles at bottling time. As Loafman points out, there will still be plenty of yeast in the beer for carbonation though.

On the topic of how much carbonation, the recipes are more like "guidelines" as you will find out, the more you read on here Some swear by no carbonation for Ale/Stout while personally, I don't like "flat" beer. For my recent coopers Euro lager, I've used 190gms which makes is an excellent drink on the patio in the summer although needs to be poured slowly (although I may dial back to 175/180 for the next batch)! The cardbonation level is very similar to that of a commercial bottle (e.g. Kronenburg). For a bitter or ale, I've used the standard "kit" recommendation of 80gms but honestly, I'd like a little more head retention and slightly more fizz so will dial up the next batch to 110 or 120. It's really whatever ever you prefer - there are members here that wouldn't dare carbonate their Ale!

Hope that helps!

Best,

Gary.

[Matt12398]

Thanks a lot for your help guys. You've given me a lot better understanding of the process.

With regards to what you said about leaving it for longer than ten days, I was of the impression that if you leave it sat on the yeast sediment for a long time, the living yeasts starts to produce chemicals which digest the dead yeast cells in the sediment as it starts to run out of sugars and then gives off flavours. You haven't had this problem by leaving it longer in the primary FV?

What is generally considered as the best ingredient for priming? I know regular sugar is not suitable. Do you go with brewing sugar or something else?

[gxprice]

Thanks a lot for your help guys. You've given me a lot better understanding of the process.

With regards to what you said about leaving it for longer than ten days, I was of the impression that if you leave it sat on the yeast sediment for a long time, the living yeasts starts to produce chemicals which digest the dead yeast cells in the sediment as it starts to run out of sugars and then gives off flavours. You haven't had this problem by leaving it longer in the primary FV?

What is generally considered as the best ingredient for priming? I know regular sugar is not suitable. Do you go with brewing sugar or something else?

2-3 weeks is fine in the primary FV, I think you'd need double that for any chemical effect to take over. Don't forget that if you don't mess with it and it's covered, there's a natural layer (albeit small) of CO2 to protect the brew.

Primary sugar is only to produce CO2, it doesn't add flavour / body or anything else (quantities are too small). Therefore, normal sugar is fine. For primary fermentation, it's a different story however (which you've probably already read about).

Gary.

[ivy lodge]

[quote="gxprice"][quote="Matt12398"]Thanks a lot for the reply Gary.
Even if the primary ferment is finished in 10 days (for example), I always leave it sit there for another few days (i.e. 2.5 to 3 weeks in total) as more of the yeast in suspension will fall to the bottom thereby ensuring you introduce less to the bottles at bottling time.

Hope that helps!

Best,

Gary.[/quote]

Please could you advise me with the quote above.
I am new and have read quite a few posts & need some advice.
I have made a batch from a kit & its in the first bin for 8 days now.
I plan on moving it to a second bin once the gravity is the same for 3 days BUT how long do i leave it in the second bin for.
My aim is to get a nice clear beer without much of a yeast layer in the bottle but reading the above it shows an extra week or more.
This is where i am lost,did i read it correctly ?
I dont wish to be rude but if i leave my beer in the first bin for say two weeks then transfer to second bin and leave there for an extra week wont there be next to nothing in the way of yeast to carbinate.
I just need some guidance regarding this question.
Thanks

[gxprice]

It takes very little yeast to carbonate the bottle and there is very little sugar added for it to "eat". After 2.5 to 3 weeks, although the beer "appears" clear, there are still millions of yeast cells in suspension and they are more than up to the job of generating the CO2. The transfer from one FV to another after 2 weeks will actually slow down the clearing process you seek to achieve since the action of syphoning will stir things up again (i.e. those still in suspension). It's not the yeast at the bottom of the FV you're worried about, it's the bottles. Leaving it alone in one FV for more than 2 weeks as I suggest has worked well for me so far and there is only very limited yeast residue in each bottle. I still have to pour carefully though - that's the joy of homebrew. If you want something more akin to a bottle of the supermarket shelf, I believe you have to start investing in more equipment and then force-carbonating after clarification with finings etc. I honestly can't help with these points as I have really felt the need yet as my beer is turning out extremely drinkable and always clear after 10 days in the bottle

[ivy lodge]

Thanks very much.
I will try that out.