Is there a good lager kit?

[mrrm1st]

I have tried a few lager kits (Cooper's Austrialian, Coopers Cerveza, Munton's Pilsner) and none of them have really floated my boat. I know that they are generally sold with ale yeast and fermented like an ale (which I think is the problem) but they have all tasted a bit cidery / floral and not altogether pleasant.

I was wondering whether anyone has had proper success with a lager kit (I gather Coopers European comes with lager yeast)? My current thinking is that kit brews are great as long as you don't want a lager. If you do then you either need to go all grain, or go to the supermarket.

[Beer O'Clock]

One of the best kits I found was the Cooper's Pilsner. With a 20g Saaz tea and dry hopped with 20g Saaz.
If you want the best results, you need constant temperatures in the 10-15degC range.

As with any lager/pilsner, you need to ferment at cooler temps for the desired results.

[mrrm1st]

Do kit yeasts generally accept lower temps. Most kit instructions say to ferment at 20-27C.

Do you get better results from buying a separate lager yeast rather than using the kit yeast?

[Marshbrewer]

Coopers Euro is good, but you need to control them there temperatures and be prepared to wait, which you would also need to do with AG.

Can't comment on the Coopers Pilsner, although that is also supplied with a proper lager yeast IIRC, so the same would apply. I am not a bit fan of Muntons (understatement), so I won't comment further on that, but Coopers Canadian Blonde is nice, although it is an ale yeast kit, and I find it best with 1kg of 50% Light malt / 50% Dextrose brew enhancer.

Just my opinions, like.

[deadbeatrocknroll]

I found Coopers Australian to be very cidery with brewing sugar, but using the BKE1 it's an altogether different beast. Tastes like a continental lager.

[fiat84]

For a Stella like clone use the Coopers Pilsener with its strong Saaz hop aroma/flavor. Made it a few times and its very good with 500g-750g dry malt(never added extra hops), kit yeast to 23L. This kit will be cloudy when bottled but eventually will clear in the bottle. Bottle when FG is reached. The true lager yeast needs to age a few months to get good, longer than ales.

a keg filer from the Coopers Website:
1.7kg Pilsener kit + 1kg Light Dry Malt
Made to only 20L (reduced volume added bitterness balances the dry malt sweetness + more flavor)
Start at about 24C then draw it down to 15C after 12hrs with lager yeast.

We recommend pitching Lager yeast at 20degC then allowing the brew to drop to as low as 13degC over the next day or so. Some physical differences when fermenting with Lager yeast:
* Less foam and barely noticeable scum ring.
* Less CO2 produced and longer ferment time.
* Ferments more thoroughly - Lower FG achieved.
* May produce an eggy smell (this will dissipate with bottle age).

[monkeyb0y]

In my opinion no...but there's some very good light ale kits that are drinkable if u love Lager...
The question to a question here is, is there any good commercial larger anyway...plenty of "additives" and tasteless in my opinion...and is it economical to make as the tinned stuff is fairly cheap for a 4% 24pack/Asda deal....
I go for the ales as these are climbing to 2quid for 500mil bottles now...
Rich

[mickhew]

I recommend the Coopers Euro Lager, made with 1kg BKE. Brewed at 13 degress or so for roughly 2 weeks, then bottled. Can be drunk anytime after 3 weeks in the bottle. I do them all the time. Made as per instructions, no extra anything, it doesn't need it. It is lovely.

[Mr.Everready]

Hi folks, first post. Been reading a while and gaining knowledge, had to register because of this topic though

I only started kit brewing about 6 weeks ago and my first was a Coopers Aussie lager. It was made with 500g brewing sugar and 500g light spray malt.
It's been in the bottle now for 4/5 weeks and it tastes just as the OP describes. It's drinkable but it's not "lager". I also made up a Geordies lager and after a couple of weeks it tastes very similar. Considering the reviews the Aussie lager has I was quite dissapointed.

I've also made up a batch of Aussie PA made up with brew enhancer 2, hopefully it might be better.

In the mean time I've bought some 2 can kits of ale, hoping that they will give a better flavour. Also got a a couple of cans of light malt extract, I plan to use these with a sparkling ale and also with another Aussie lager. Do you think using the LME will make a difference to the lager kit ? I've also got a couple of Saflager yeasts, could they help too ?

[mickhew]

You could try the Aussie lager with the Saflager yeast, that should work out a bit better than the kit ale yeast supplied, I'd give that a go. They come with ale yeasts so you can do them at room temp, more "brewer friendly". Brewing a lager, with an ale yeast, is never going to be a really good lager.

[Mr.Everready]

Using the LME or 50/50 sugar/spray malt ?

[cwrw gwent]

Agree with Mickhew regarding Coopers European lager. Made some last year and it was excellent. Currently have 35 pints bottled in late January maturing in the garage (brewed to a length of 20 litres with one kilo of Spraymalt) and am looking forward to testing the first one in early May.

[mrrm1st]

In my opinion no...but there's some very good light ale kits that are drinkable if u love Lager...
The question to a question here is, is there any good commercial larger anyway...plenty of "additives" and tasteless in my opinion...and is it economical to make as the tinned stuff is fairly cheap for a 4% 24pack/Asda deal....
I go for the ales as these are climbing to 2quid for 500mil bottles now...
Rich

It is a good point as to whether there are truely and good commercial lagers, but for me they are still some way ahead of kit lager (my attempts at kit lager anyhow). I think I will give a Cooper's continental a shot as that has a lager yeast.

My parents have just gone to America for 3 weeks, so I can go round to their house and ferment it in their fridge!

[niallac]

Have brewed two Coopers lager kits now - the 'posh' pilsener kit and the 'International' euro lager kit. I did the Pilsener kit with mostly light DME and some sugar in October, using the kit yeast and with an ancient, Boots thermostatic beer heater (it runs at about 18C). The results were good, finishing at about 5.3% and clear with a nice amber colour. There was a slightly fruity flavour to the finished product though, which to my mind was not at home in a 'proper' lager. My wife likes it though, and several friends also seemed to enjoy it.

In comparison, I brewed the Euro lager kit in January, during the cold spell, using 1kg of DME, a 1lb jar of honey and a little dexrose. I got an ATC temp controller for Christmas, and used this along with Brewferm dried lager yeast to do the primary fermentation at a fairly constant 11C. I then conditioned (lagered) it, away from the main yeast, at about 5-7C for about 3 or 4 weeks. I added a lot of late Saaz hops to the secondary, and the results are amazingly different - IMHO, proper lager (also about 6% abv). I fed some to a mate recently, who has been to Oktoberfest numerous times and spent some time living in Prague, and he was very complimentary.

In short, I think temperature control seems to be everything with lager, and possibly with the longer primary secondary times, sanitising is a close second.

All the best,

Niall