modifying a kit to make a citrusy ale.

[pcrofts27]

Hi everyone,

been using the forum for a while now for info, but never posted before. Only done a few kits, but want to try something different.
I'm fancying modifying a pale ale kit to get a nice light citrusy beer for the summer, but could do with some advice.
After reading up on a few things I'm planning the following.

1 - Find a decent pale ale or light ale kit. Probably a 2 can kit, but possibly 1 can and use LME instead of dextrose.
2 - Steep 30g of cascade hops in hot water for 10 mins, then strain and add this to the kit when I make it.
3 - add 30g cascade hops to the fermenting vessel a day or two after starting.

So that's the cunning plan Baldrick, but am I barking up the wrong tree? Would a 2 can kit be better than 1 can with LME? Or would anyone recommend a different sugar/s?
I've read that steeping hops adds flavour hence step 2, but also read that adding while fermenting adds aroma, hence step 3. Does step 2 add both so i don't need to add later? Also have i got the quantities right?
Another question is whether it's best to use whole hops or pellets for this sort of thing. Can anyone offer some advice on that?

Sorry if I'm being a pest but it seems there's a lot of experineced and helpful people on here, so I figured you wouldn't mind.
thanks in advance to anyone who replies. (unless you're telling me to bugger off, in which case - bugger off yerself!)

[duffymoon]

One comment I would make is that with a 2 tin kit you don't need additional fermentables. Also these kits tend to already have a load of hops of types that might not be desirable for your finished ale if you add cascade on top.

I would suggest do a fairly bland one tin kit plus DME or LME, plus your hops. Something like viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42443&p=446745&hili ... le#p446745 but with the hops replaced with cascade & maybe without the crystal malt unless you want it to have a slight 'biscuity' richness.

Your approach to hops sounds fine to me.

Good luck!

[Shrunken Reaper]

I agree with duffy, I know a lot of people use the APA as a base for adapted kit IPA's with a lot of success, Cascade is a lovely hop IMO

I would say that dry hopping a couple of days after the fermentation starts might me a bit early, it could drive off some of the aroma while the CO2 is pouring out, I tend to add mine about 4 days before the end of primary and i ferment for 10-14 days, this gives the hop bed time to settle in and the aroma sticks around...

[soupdragon]

I would say that dry hopping a couple of days after the fermentation starts might me a bit early, it could drive off some of the aroma while the CO2 is pouring out, I tend to add mine about 4 days before the end of primary and i ferment for 10-14 days, this gives the hop bed time to settle in and the aroma sticks around...

+1 to that

Whenever I dry hop, I let the brew ferment for a week 1st then add the hops and leave it for another week before kegging

Cheers Tom

[pcrofts27]

thanks everyone. some useful info there.
I've always bottled after around 7 or 8 days, when the OG has stabilised. I've noticed a slight yeast flavour, which i'm thinking might mean i've bottled early.
Is this likely to be the case, or could I get rid of this by siphoning off the dead yeast after 3 or 4 days and then leaving another 7-10 before bottling?
And i think i'll definitely go with the Coopers APA kit.

[floydmeddler]

Get some orange zest in there!!

[Shrunken Reaper]

I've noticed a slight yeast flavour, which i'm thinking might mean i've bottled early

It could be, my first thought was that once the yeast drops out of suspension this shouldn't be a problem, but now I'm thinking the extra yeast in the bottle could be contributing additional off flavours???

Another factor would be what yeast you're using, some leave a little flavour behind, others drop out completely... it's a bit of a mixed bag really, but I find S-04 leaves nothing unpeasant behind...

Also might be worth mentioning that according to GW, bottles should condition for a fair bit longer than cask, because the off flavours can float off in a kegged ale, whereas they're trapped in the bottles and take a while to mellow out...

[bigdave]

I've just made a cracking summer ale which is amazingly citrusy!
1 can Coopers Australian Pale ale + 1KG Beer Kit Enhancer (BKE).

It's the hop addition that's made it summery and special!...
20g Stella boiled for 20min
20g Stella steeped for 20min
No dry hops needed!

It's got a real crisp citrus freshness on the nose and is light, crisp and citrusy in the mouth.

[pcrofts27]

Hi bigdave

what's the procedure? Do you boil the hops for 20 mins, steep a separate batch at the same time and then strain both and add to the FV with the can?

I'm using 500g light spray malt and 500g of dextrose which i think is basically the same as the enhancer.

and Floydmeddler - Orange Zest? how do you add that?

I've bought the APA and 100g of Cascade so I'm just finalising the plan before i brew this weekend.

cheers everyone.
Any more recommendations gratefully received.
paul

[john_drummer]

what's the procedure? Do you boil the hops for 20 mins, steep a separate batch at the same time and then strain both and add to the FV with the can?

I did something similar to Geezah's brew, but without the honey... Coopers Australian Pale Ale plus BKE as recommended on the kit. Plus Cascade hops

1) make up the wort in your FV as though you were brewing the kit as per instructions; find the biggest pan you've got & pour some of the wort into the pan - needs to be about 2/3 - 3/4 full but no more.
2) Bring to the boil & add your first (bittering hops) - I used 20g Cascade & boiled it for 15 minutes.
3) turn off the heat & let it cool. Don't go away though...
4) ...when the temperature has dropped to 80degC, add another 20g of Cascade to the boiled hops & wort, put the lid on & leave it until the temperature has dropped to 24degC at the very warmest. 20degC is better. Probably overnight.
5) add back to the FV, check the temperature & if suitable, add the yeast. I used the kit yeast but Safale US-05 would be a possible alternative.
6) I also added yet another 20g of Cascade in a muslin bag (pre-boiled in water for 10 minutes) also containing a clean, sanitised & rinsed shot glass to weigh it down, suspended in the wort by a piece of (pre-boiled) string so I could fish it out later. I did that at 3 days.
7) let it ferment out then bottle & condition as normal




This was more or less my last kit ale, although I still do the Coopers European Lager kits for Mrs_D. I now do Brew In A Bag (BIAB) ales.

I tried to replicate this using a recipe of my own design, but didn't quite have enough Cascade, and it was a Sunday, so I improvised using Challenger for bittering, Cascade for Aroma and Bobek for the dry hop... fantastic result, now conditioning in the cool room.

Way stronger than I anticipated (6% ABV!), so I tried again with about 1kg less grain but the same hop bill, which has turned out at about 4% ABV, bottled last weekend & undergoing secondary fermentation as I type. Fingers crossed...

[bigdave]

Hi bigdave

what's the procedure? Do you boil the hops for 20 mins, steep a separate batch at the same time and then strain both and add to the FV with the can?

I just treat a 2ltr pan of water like I would treat the last 20 min of an all grain brew. Chuck hops in & boil for 20 min then flame out & chuck the other hops in the pan for another 20 mins while its cooling (naturally). Then pour the concoction through a sanitised sieve into the FV

[floydmeddler]

Hi bigdave
and Floydmeddler - Orange Zest? how do you add that?
paul

For a kit I suppose I'd grate around 30g, bring it to the boil in a little of the wort, switch off and allow to sit covered for around 15 mins then add to the fermenter.

I'm doing a brew tomorrow with 50g of orange zest, 20g of crushed coriander seeds and 450g of honey. I loke to go overboard on these things...

[pcrofts27]

Well,
thanks for the advice everyone. Finally made the kit up today, and I thought you might want to know what I eventually decided on.

Coopers Australian Pale Ale kit,
MIxed the yeast with 1/2 pint cooled boiled water, 1 tbsp malt extract, 1 tsp sugar. I was going to leave this all day, and brew in the evening, but my son changed the plans on me so the yeast only got to sit for a couple of hours.
Boiled 25g Cascade hops for 15 mins
Turned heat off and added 25g more hops and zest from 2 lemons. Let these steep for 30 mins.
Made the kit up with 500g Muntons Light Spray malt (less the spoonful for the yeast), 500g dextrose, and the strained hops/zset.
Got the temparature to 24 degrees then chucked the yeast in.
Priming will be 120g dextrose, as per the kit instructions. I've used 85g for the previous kits, but from what i've read a bit more won't hurt.
I'll bottle it a week on Sunday so that'll be 12 days.

I'll let you know how it turns out, but in the meantime if anyone thinks I made any errors there, please let me know.
cheers
paul

[soupdragon]

Sounds ok Paul
That's a bit more sugar than I'd use, especially with the weather warming up a bit. It's not excessive but I'd keep the bottles in a cool place once they've had a couple of weeks conditioning. Should turn out to be a tasty brew
Best of luck

Cheers Tom

[pcrofts27]

Hi Tom,

do you mean the priming sugar?
The instructions with the kit call for 8gms white sugar per litre, which would be 184gms for the full 23 litres!
I've done 85gms in the past but felt I'd like a little bit more life in it being a summery ale.
Would you suggest less, like 100gms or so?

thanks
paul