Candi Sugar in a Stout?

[Matt12398]

After dabbling with all grain and having mixed results I want to have another go at a kit for my Christmas drink as I would like for it to be guaranteed good quality like all my other kits have been so I want to do a stout. I did a Cooper's Irish previously and it was amazing so I intend to do that again but more Ditch style. Looking to start it in the next month or so giving it time to condition in a corny.

I've been reading a bit about candi sugar and wondered about using that instead of Ditch's cup of sugar addition he does because I understand it gives some nice toffee flavours which I think would work well in a stout. I was thinking about using dark candi sugar but having never used it before wasn't sure if would give the flavours I want or whether I would even notice any improvement it might make.

I don't want to make it stupidly high ABV or go down the RIS route. I just want something along the lines of a normal strength stout but with some good flavours in there.

Ditch, as the god of all things stout related, if you're lurking about, let me know your thoughts and whether I should just stop messing about and do it your way.

[Stomach]

You may get your required taste if you use golden syrup, a much cheaper alternative to candi sugar. All my Belgian beers that are in condition or in the FV now have got GS rather than candi sugar, and the trial jar test gave pleasing results!

And a jar of approx 685g from morrisions is about £1.50 ish!

Hope that helps!

Cheers

[sbond10]

Gezzer tells you how to make it here
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53061

[TC2642]

You could make your own dark candi sugar:

http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/s ... Sugar.html

I have used this method and it does add a nice choc milkshake type taste to stouts and porters.

[Geezah]

The only downside I see with adding a dark red candi sugar to a stout is that it will thin down the body of the stout if it is used as a direct replacement for a dark DME / LME and you would end up with something more like a porter.
If say you used 750g of dark DME and then added 500g of a candi sugar that has been cooked for 30-60 minutes to get a rich colour and nice flavours then you might get a nice balance.
Just be carefull of the priming if your not force carbonating a keg as you might get a thick head on your pint like a belgian beer, or impart too much fizz to the stout if you cold condition it.

[twentyfootwilf]

Would it be worth substituting the mug of raw cane sugar in the 'Ditch' recipe for a mug of candi sugar and kegging (not a corni, just a plastic one) with little or no priming. If I remember rightly Ditch doesn't prime when kegging? I'm intending to do a Coopers stout next brew and will be kegging it so the candi sugar idea sounds appealing to me but I don't want to cock the job up.

[Geezah]

Would it be worth substituting the mug of raw cane sugar in the 'Ditch' recipe for a mug of candi sugar and kegging (not a corni, just a plastic one) with little or no priming. If I remember rightly Ditch doesn't prime when kegging? I'm intending to do a Coopers stout next brew and will be kegging it so the candi sugar idea sounds appealing to me but I don't want to cock the job up.

Sounds good twenty...
keg it and add a squirt of co2 to keep it serving.

[twentyfootwilf]

I'll keep that in mind and may well get myself some candi sugar to add to it. May even steep a little pale chocolate malt I have in the cupboard, any thoughts on chocolate malt in stout.

[Geezah]

I have never used any dark malts personally, so cant comment, but if you know what the kit is like, then any additions IMO should be done singular so you can identify the flavours etc and noted for future use.
... maybe split the kit in half and add a chocolate malt mash to 10l and then compare the 2 side by side?

[Ditch]

I want to have another go at a kit for my Christmas drink as I would like for it to be guaranteed good quality ..... I want to do a stout ..... but more Ditch style. Looking to start it in the next month or so giving it time to condition in a corny.

Ditch, let me know your thoughts and whether I should just stop messing about and do it your way.

Okay, Matters;

1. Do it my way and I can personally assure ye good gear.

2. As Wilf and Geezah are so rightly indicating; F**k off the whole Corni concept and grab a BK or two (or three), if only just for ye stout.

3. " Should I just stop messing about and do it your way? " See 1. above.


I can only really add, mate; Do it strictly as I do and, by xmass? F**k me! Ye'll have had time to have made and drunk so much of the bloody stuff ~ my gear comes in FAST! ~ ye'd even have had time to consider and make personal, experience / taste based judgements.

I ran out of my stout, last Tuesday week. I put six kits together, last Wednesday. I bought five days worth of cans, last Tuesday. I'm about to stagger off and syphon FV 2 into a BK. Which I shall then get amongst.

I'm not sure WTF today is ~ But this sh!t tastes fine!

[twentyfootwilf]

I have never used any dark malts personally, so cant comment, but if you know what the kit is like, then any additions IMO should be done singular so you can identify the flavours etc and noted for future use.
... maybe split the kit in half and add a chocolate malt mash to 10l and then compare the 2 side by side?

Good thinking! I hadn't thought of it like that. I have some ideas for the choc malt in future brews (possibly a Coopers English Bitter) so I reckon I'll hang on to it for now. I've really got to get into this Ditch's Stout stuff (the phrase 'I'll have whatever he's on' springs to mind when reading a Dich post ) It seems that if I get it in the FV on a Friday I'll be drinking it 2 weeks later . Sounds like a plan!

[Matt12398]

My intention was that if I did add the candi sugar it would be instead of Ditch's cup added at the end but I'm thinking now that I might just do what Ditch does and appreciate that first.

Ditch, you're right, why try and fix what's not broken. I'm going to do it Ditch style and get amongst that.

In terms of not putting it in a corny I'm not sure I agree. Are you saying that because you don't see the point in spending the extra money on them or is is down to something else that would have a negative effect on the beer? I've already got the cornies etc so for me it's already ready to go.

[twentyfootwilf]

My intention was that if I did add the candi sugar it would be instead of Ditch's cup added at the end but I'm thinking now that I might just do what Ditch does and appreciate that first.

That was my thought Matt, but I've just seen the price of Candi Sugar, and it's not cheap so the tried and trusted method seems preferable. Somehow, I can't see Ditch wasting money on non essentials........

[Ditch]

Are you saying that because you don't see the point in spending the extra money on them or is is down to something else that would have a negative effect on the beer?

It's my perception of the likely level of carbonation, mate. Ye'll need to prime them with sugar and / or use forced gas, yeah? Right there, ye going off the road, look. I neither prime, nor otherwise carbonate my stuff.

Entirely up to you, of course. Just that I can't be held responsible for any lessening of superbness in ye own results

Oh, by the way; Ever want to be a complete lunatic? Make one of mine exactly as. But, only make it up to three gallons. Then warn Andy before ye start touching it, so he can follow ye about the forum, cleaning up the mess ye'll leave

That stuff's truly astonishing. But it will seriously f**k ye head up!

[Matt12398]

I like a little bit of fizz. Nothing lager like but somewhere around normal ale carbonation so that doesn't bother me. Plus you drink it far quicker than me so you don't have any issues of it staying fresh.

As far as what you said about Christmas, I don't plan on brewing it for a few weeks but I liked how my last stout developed over a couple months. Like I said, i've been trying some all grain with mixed results so I thought I can do a kit pretty well and it's near guaranteed to taste good so if I make it, put it in a keg and forget about it until Christmas I know I've got a keg full of prue joy in the bank when I want it. If my all grain beers improve by then I also have those as well.

I'll give you a shout when I'm drinking it to let you know how good it turns out. I might even make one sooner and drink it to see how the kegging works out in advance.