Vegetarian clearing options

[rootsbrew]

I need some help with vegetarian fininngs, for beer - what are the options?

Edit: Ignore what is now the preamble, unless you want to read it all!
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Premable

There are times when clearing the beer really doesn't matter. This is discussion is not about those occasions.

There are times when you'd really like your beer to be bright and sparkly (in all senses). If your beer has been conditioning for nearly two months and there's a still a cloud woggling around in the bottle but some of the contents are clear - or when the bottle looks all clear at cellar temperature, but goes cloudy in the fridge... these are just examples. However, most of the options to clear beer aren't what one might call vegetarian! And, I can't really find very good answers.

This much I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, though)
- cloudiness is caused by particles being able to stay in suspension; these particles are caused by both the ingredients and the yeast.
- finings join these particles up so their density is greater than the surrounding liquid; these clumps then sink to the bottom of the container.
- some finings stick to -vely charged particles, while some to +vely charged ones.
- some ingredients contain tannin, which is -vely charged so should stick to a +vely charged fining agent. I think these include barley and hop resin?
- this means two fining agents are often required.
- differnet yeasts flocculate differently, so leave more/less cloudy beer.
- the beer should sit still (in primary FV) for at least 4 days after primary fermentation has finished, to allow the yeast to flocculate and sink.
- pasturised egg whites are widely used to clear red wine (I don't know if it would work as well in beer). On a similar note, caesin (a milk protein) is sometimes used but not sure what for.
- residual yeast can compromise one's constitution!

I guess, to start with, I would like to know
- which parts of the beer have +ve charge and which have -ve charge?
... which agents correspond to these items? The more, the merrier - I can strike off non-vege things later. Please include the agent name, if mentioning a brand name.
- how much does clearing the beer depleat the flavour?

If anyone's got some ideas on these specific problems, please advise:
- what can be done about a beer that won't clear with time? I don't mind re-priming, if necessary; this beer has not been fined at all, yet.
- what can be done about beer that suffers from chill haze, that's been fined with chitosan (yes, I know now it's prawns!)? e.g. serve above x°C?

Thanks in advance for all help and advice

[rootsbrew]

Bump, anyone?

[boingy]

Too many words. Can't be arsed to read 'em...

Man up and use gelatine finings! It's a waste product of the beef industry and it doesn't end up in the beer you drink so is ethically no worse than leather shoes and probably better than milk/cheese/yoghurt etc.

OK, that's the anti-veggie rant out of the way.

Read the tech articles here:

http://www.murphyandson.co.uk/murphyand ... nical.html

and their product blurb here:

http://www.murphyandson.co.uk/murphyand ... ducts.html

One of their chaps posts on this forum so is available for sensible questioning.

[crafty john]

If you want to fine your beer, I dear say you will have to use one of the animal related products available. My wife is a veggy and she doesn't complain about the small amount of fish guts I add to the wine I brew for her, after all you don't actually ingest it is only used to clear and no residual traces are left in the finished wine as they are all fined out. I don't suppose this will help you with your plight to find a fining ingredient that doesn't contain animal products but this is the only advice I feel I can give

[cellone]

Irish moss?

[crafty john]

Irish moss?

+1

[Emeraldclaire]

Well, I'm veggie but I don't bother about the minuscule amounts per million that a bit of finings will add to the wines I make. I have never added finings to beer; I find it clears in its own good time. But I do know you can use Bentonite as a fining agent in wine, and as this is a mineral, it is fine for veggies. I wasn't sure if you could add it to beer, but here's a link:
http://www.ehow.com/how_7394307_use-bentonite-beer.html

[barney]

Irish moss in boil

Polyclar in secondary before racking

[Matt12398]

This is the kit brewing forum though so what I'd ask is why is your beer cloudy. You shouldn't be getting chill haze in a kit to the best of my knowledge and unless you're changing your yeast and using some with really low flocculation I don't see how you're getting cloudy beer with a kit.

I look forward to hearing an explanation for why I'm wrong.

[GARYSMIFF]

Plastic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinylpolypyrrolidone


Polyclar

PVPP has E number code E1202 and is used as a stabiliser.

Its works

[rootsbrew]

Hurray! Some replies - thanks people.

This is the kit forum, good point, and yes: I have chill haze (fine when warm then cloudy in the fridge).
Wilko Hoppy Copper Bitter + Beer enhancer, Crisp (I think) + tap water + brewing sugar in bottles, "cleared" with the not so vege chitosan on day 8 in primary,
racked to secondary day 11,
bottled day 20.
Is it my technique or a rubbish kit?
The slow clearer is a St Peter's Ruby Red, to which I added a few too many dry hops, so I would like to bring it into line a little before I bottle.

- Irish moss - err, I'm using a kit. Is IM appropriate to use with kits, if so how?

- PVPP, I'll give this a look. Is this a single agent, if not using Irish Moss?

- Bentonite. Thanks for reminder. Again, is this a single agent, or do I follow bentonite with something that picks up the other charge?

- Gelatine, isinglass, chitosan, etc.

If you want to fine your beer, I dear say you will have to use one of the animal related products available...after all you don't actually ingest it is only used to clear and no residual traces are left in the finished wine as they are all fined out...

Fair point. If I'm going to use one of these, what do they each do?

- Egg whites, caesin, etc.
Any ideas? Are these used for beer, or just wine?

- Murphies website.
Thanks for heads up. I'll get in touch - see what ideas they have

[crafty john]

Have you given burglars an easy 'out'? Modern home alarm systems can seem overwhelming on the surface, but you may be ignoring what a burglar can do before an alarm has time to do its job. For example, no matter what your alarm can do, if you have a left a window open and a burglar can slip inside the house in seconds,

[orlando]

Can't help with kit problems but suspect the dry hopping might be causing some issues from what you have said. You may consider a very fine mesh hop bag (the homebrew shop do them) if you don't already. Another method employed by home brewers to get yeast to flocculate is to chill the beer down to close to zero. Obviously you will need a fridge for this for most of the year but adding a tube heater and temp control gives you a really useful tool and of course keeps your veggie conscience intact.

The other factor, which is in very short supply, is of course patience. Store your bottles for long enough and they will clear eventually.

[nutmeg31415]

If you decide to go down the Corney key route, you can just put the cloudy beer in one keg, and pass it through a filter into a second one. That'll "polish" the beer nicely and take out any haze. Just a suggestion for possible consideration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDBEsi_FYY

[Brighteyebeer]

Hi Rootsbrew
Glad you asked this question, as it's been a concern of mine for a while (also being veggie). My (limited) understanding is that yeast particles are positively charged, and effective finings need to be negatively charged to attract them. I've yet to find a negatively charged vegetarian fining agent - they all seem to be animal products. I think previous posts about using Irish Moss, Protafloc etc don't really cover the point. These provide positively charged particles. They will attract negatively charged proteins, but not yeast particles.

Currently, I use Chitosan. It's made from shell, rather than guts etc, and is also cheap and readily available. I accept the view that it precipitates out of the beer before you drink it, but it's still an animal product, so I'd rather not use it. If I had space for a conditioning fridge (which I don't), I would just chill the newly fermented beer for a few days instead of fining it.

Some brewers fine with gelatine, and there is vegetarian gelatine. It's on my list for future research to see if it has the right properties without introducing anything undesirable into the beer. I'll let you know if I make any headway.
Cheers, Chris

Quick edit: A while back, I thought I'd found the answer with Bentonite. It fulfills all the criteria for veggie finings. It works well in wine, but apparently kills the head in beer. Ho hum...