Wilkos Velvet Stout 2 for 1.

[hazelbrew]

Bit of an experiment.

had a Wilkos Velvet Stout kit sat waiting to be done...

So I have done a "2 for 1" with it..

1.5kg Wilko Velvet Stout kit
1.5kg Edme Dark LME
500g Dark DME
500g Coopers BKE2 (60/40 split Dextrose/maltodextrin i think)
200g light DME
300g crushed crystal 60

10g Centennial whole leaf
20g Ahtanum pellet. (smell fantastic)

1 tin golden syrup...
kit yeast (Nottingham?>)
yeast slurry from saison - Belle Saison

So how did I get two?

- steeped the crystal for 30 minutes in 4.5 litres water
- brought to boil
- added the dry extract and BKE2
- turned flame off and added the hops.
- chilled in sink after about 20 minutes.
- added to the kit and LME in one fermenter.
- added water to 20 litres
- and stirred to be well mixed
- rehydrated kit yeast.

OG at this point was 1068-1070

and now is where it gets fun.

FV1
- added tin of golden syrup.
- put half - approx. 10 litres in.
- pitched about 1 litre of slurry from saison. Belle Saison
- no OG taken. but estimate is 1085 after the syrup addition. FG estimate based on 90% attenuation is... 1009... for 9%+ ABV... we shall see.

5 hours after it had a 6cm krausen already. smell from the airlock was fantastic. citrus and fruit.

FV2
- added extra water to make up to 13 litres.
- pitched rehydrated Wilkos yeast. I think this is Nottingham? smelt.... yeasty...
- OG measured at 1056 estimated final gravity is 1015.

[hazelbrew]

gravity and "are we there yet " doubts creeping in...

FV2 is still going well. occasional burps from the airlock. Wlll leave alone a while longer

FV1 however...

I took a gravity reading on 1st - 1022.
Took one tonight and... still 1022.


Sample doesn't taste sweet. in fact it tastes "done" and the yeast had dropped out.

I have never had a beer finish over 1020 though. I have roused the yeast gently with a sanitized long spoon. this has been fermenting in a temp controlled fridge at approx 21C for the last 8 days.

what do you think? Done?

I cant see how it is done yet.

[Kev888]

That does seem a very small attenuation, something like 60% perhaps? If the grains were steeped at a high temperature they may produce less easily fermentable sugars, but the majority of the fermentables look likely to be quite normal/easy-going sugars. Its not impossible, but I think you're right to be at least suspicious.

Though what of I'm not sure; if it doesn't taste sweet and there was nothing odd about the fermentation temperature or age or quantity of yeast etc, the only thing suggesting a problem is the final gravity. Could your original gravity have been higher than measured, and/or the yeast be something other than expected?

[hazelbrew]

Just over 60% attenuation, which seems very low.

OG was fine- measured at pitching temp so no need to adjust for temperature. Also... If I plug the ingredients into brewers friend I get the same OG. Given that most of the fermentables are from a kit... I don't see how og can be off.

Yeast is possible. The yeast was the kit yeast from the wilko stout kit. Kit was in date, stored in garage in my house at 15. I rehydrated it before pitching, and.it deemed to behave fine. Krausen after 12 to 24 hours, lots of foam. It is a all ount only 5/or 6 grammes, but only had 13litres to work on.

The wilko gervin yeast is supposed to be Nottingham, but I don't know what the kit yeast is.

Temp probe has been stuck to side of fv in the brew fridge the whole time.

I am stumped.

See how it goes after rousing the yeast. And maybe bottle with lower carbonation if still high?

If I bottled with low priming sugar ? How many atmospheres of ci2 do you get per gravity point?

Ie if I bottled it now and it went through another 6 gravity points to get to 1016 would that just be overpriced or a danger?

[hazelbrew]

no joy.

gravity is still 1022 today.

Bottle or pitch a different yeast ?!

seems flat out wrong to bottle something with such poor attenuation.i could bottle in swing tops and some plastic to check carbonation levels easily? only got 13 litres to bottle, so not too many to get through.

[Kev888]

It may perhaps help to pitch a lot of viable cells, but its not a complete dead cert even if the original yeast were to blame, as the conditions are now challenging for new (normal) yeast to get going at this stage; relatively high alcohol, low oxygen, and low availability of easy sugars. There are special yeast (or yeast type beasties) intended to restart and/or reach very low FGs but on the one occasion I tried them they were over-aggressive resulting in far too dry a beer. Maybe mileage varies.

As most indications are that its done or close to it I'd personally be tempted to just bottle and keep an eye on them as you suggest, in case excessive pressure starts to build. Perhaps without priming, as risking a flat brew seems better than risking bombs.

Its probably one of those freak happenings, but it could be worth testing your hydrometer in water (and maybe your thermometers and scales or other measuring gubbins) just in case something is giving you false readings. It can happen (it happened to me) that the scale inside the hydrometer slips or other measuring devices wander in accuracy.

[hazelbrew]

FV1 is still stable at 1022, so I will go ahead and bottle it. meant to during the week but no time.

FV2....

took the first gravity reading tonight... 1006! what a beast of a yeast. that gives 10.4% abv before priming. Will leave it a bit longer and take a second reading before bottling. Can't see that it has that much further to go though. That is already 92% attenuation...

[hazelbrew]

FV1 bottled tonight. 21 500ml and 3 halves.

Wilkos have responded in another thread. The yeast in the stout kit is fermentis S33. That is a yeast with low attenuation, listed as 70% by fermentis. I achieved what, 60, 62?%?

took another sample from the FV2 stronger one. That is down at 1005, so I think must be nearly done. certainly safe to bottle now I think.

i chilled the sample in the fridge, poured into a long glass and worked through. A bit of banana. tasted gorgeous. malty. yum . Can't wait to get it bottled and carbed up. Dangerously drinkable! I'd have had another sample of this over the wine I had with sunday roast!

[Kev888]

Wilkos have responded in another thread. The yeast in the stout kit is fermentis S33. That is a yeast with low attenuation, listed as 70% by fermentis. I achieved what, 60, 62?%?

Yes thats roughly what I made it too. Its good news on the yeast; as well as being less attenuative than you thought originally, there is quite a lot of leeway around the manufacturer's general figures on these things, according to the circumstances.

If it were all grain you could easily manipulate the fermentability of the wort just by using different mash temperatures, and so can the kit manufacturers. Different ingredients produce a different mix of sugars too, and you have introduced a few variations. And higher original gravities tend to see smaller attenuations as well if the resulting alcohol level starts to hamper the yeast. So, as everything else appeared normal I could believe all is indeed well.

[hazelbrew]

of course the one i really want bottled and ready to go is the one in FV2... ! 92% attenuation and 10.5% by now! honestly tasted far better than it has any right to.

wondering about racking the two gallons to secondary and aging that way. or perhaps bottle half, and bulk age half. Thoughts? I recently cleaned a whole bunch of half sized bottles. One gallon into those is 14-18 half bottles. Perhaps I have unwittingly created my first Christmas beer?

[hazelbrew]

I know I only bottled this on Sunday but couldn't help myself... coopers stout is ready pretty quickly, so cracked one of these tonight, too warm from the cupboard.

carbed up well enough already. just needs more time and to be colder! Taste is good.

[WalesAles]

Hb,

Beer Porn!

WA

[hazelbrew]

Was a bit unsure about the version with the kit yeast.

checked the gravity tonight on a bottle I had - it was at 1021. pretty safe bet now that this just finished very high final gravity with poor attenuation.

[hazelbrew]

bottled the higher ABV version tonight... while drinking a bottle of its lower ABV twin (what else?)

bulk primed with 65 g of sugar in 200ml water. hydrometer sample still says 1005. sample disappeared very quickly., this hides the ABV well.

now the waiting game for it to carb up!

bottling took ages though - this is in 333ml bottles, all 30 of them:

[hazelbrew]

Tasted the high ABV version tonight.

very similar to its brother, but with slight hint of banana and saison spice from the yeast. otherwise overwhelmingly just a strong stout.

small head lasted to the end of the glass.

hides the alcohol very well. glad i bottled in small bottles!

I have tucked some of this away for a year at least at the mother in laws cellar. going to have to try and leave this for Christmas. Would happily brew this again.,