Braumeister new touch screen

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f00b4r
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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by f00b4r » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:36 pm

The option for "auto cooling" seems to be edging the machine towards being more hands off if wanted, it will be interesting to see this and the other functions tested in the real world to see how they have implemented it and how it performs. I am still not sold on the external cooling jacket though.

nickjdavis
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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by nickjdavis » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:08 pm

McMullan wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:45 pm

Actually they do. Improve beer over a tin pot, that is. The apparent 'simplicity' was accidentally engineered on purpose to facilitate automated wort making with an industrial level of consistency. Unlike Nordic knobheads plagiarising all they can to weld and Chinese-together the world's most expensive poorly designed 'Frankenstein' ever :lol:
What's your beef with the Brewtools gear then?

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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by f00b4r » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:32 pm

nickjdavis wrote:
McMullan wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:45 pm

Actually they do. Improve beer over a tin pot, that is. The apparent 'simplicity' was accidentally engineered on purpose to facilitate automated wort making with an industrial level of consistency. Unlike Nordic knobheads plagiarising all they can to weld and Chinese-together the world's most expensive poorly designed 'Frankenstein' ever :lol:
What's your beef with the Brewtools gear then?
Not sure about McMullan but, when I saw the Brewtools machine I was initially very impressed (I have seen it in the flesh too), however a lot of the advertised functions were not actually implemented in the software of the controller but marked down as coming in future updates (hopefully this has improved) and the complexity of it put me off. I foresaw a lot more setup/disassembly and cleaning time being added to my brew day. Wort production is only a small part of the brewing process and I didn’t want to make my brew days even longer.
It is very shiny though.

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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by nickjdavis » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:05 pm

f00b4r wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:32 pm

Not sure about McMullan but, when I saw the Brewtools machine I was initially very impressed (I have seen it in the flesh too), however a lot of the advertised functions were not actually implemented in the software of the controller but marked down as coming in future updates (hopefully this has improved) and the complexity of it put me off. I foresaw a lot more setup/disassembly and cleaning time being added to my brew day. Wort production is only a small part of the brewing process and I didn’t want to make my brew days even longer.
It is very shiny though.
Thats fair enough...I see plenty of set ups of the Brewtools system that simply amaze me that anyone can quite figure out what sequence of valves they need to open in order to get wort or liquor to flow out of a particular port.

I've had a BM20 for nearly 4 years now but want something just a little big bigger to allow me to brew bigger beers or bigger volumes as I desire (without messing about doing re-iterated mashes and stuff like that)....but don't need anything like the volume the BM50 would give me....the Brewtools 40 looks like a nice compromise....9kg malt capacity will do just nicely for me.

Not sure whether McMullan has a genuine beef with the Brewtools system or if the biggest case of irony has just wooshed straight over my head!!! :D

McMullan

Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by McMullan » Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:22 am

nickjdavis wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:08 pm
McMullan wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:45 pm

Actually they do. Improve beer over a tin pot, that is. The apparent 'simplicity' was accidentally engineered on purpose to facilitate automated wort making with an industrial level of consistency. Unlike Nordic knobheads plagiarising all they can to weld and Chinese-together the world's most expensive poorly designed 'Frankenstein' ever :lol:
What's your beef with the Brewtools gear then?
I was in your position several months ago, Nick. I was considering increasing capacity by moving up from a 20L BM to a 50L BM or a B80 BT.

I almost bought a B80 actually, but decided to sleep on it due to it being a new system on the market from yet another home brew start-up and - fully kitted out with all the necessary ‘optional’ accessories - the most expensive home brew system on the market. Luckily they were out of stock for a while so I had time to cool off.

After some very careful consideration and kicking a display model at a LHBS I decided it wasn’t for me.

A lot’s been claimed about the build quality, but I think it depends what you’re used to. Moving from a GF I can see a reason why some note the ‘build quality’ of a BT, but a BM owner might not view it as better quality at all.

It struck me as being a prototype system still in development with, in my opinion, a number of design flaws, making brew days more of a chore than I’d expect for the price tag. It’s very much a hands-on system with a design not particularly suited for being left unattended. The mash is prone to getting stuck during recirculation, risking the heating elements, for example. That was a big problem for me. I’m so used to letting my BM do the wort making. I usually bugger off after pressing ‘start’ to do something more interesting for 2-3 hours, while it makes wort for me. Which it should do at that price. Right? And, to be honest, I really don’t find wort making that interesting. Like watching paint dry. In fact, after cleaning, it ranks as the second least interesting part of the brewing process, for me.

While I’m on the subject of cleaning, I was put off too by the not-so-sanitary looking 3-way valves, which are Chinese standard and don’t reflect the overall price tag of the system, especially as necessary ‘optional’ accessories. I think they’d need stripping down between brews, including the difficult-to-get-to one underneath. Just another chore. Like setting the system up and packing it away every brew day. A bit like a labour-of-love 3V system really. Not really what I want to be doing every brew day, personally. I brew in the kitchen so I don’t have a dedicated brewing area where it could be left at least partially set up.

The touchscreen can be a bit sensitive in terms of being activated easily by water droplets running down the system or clumsy swipes, potentially leading to accidents like boil overs, for example. Especially so if full power is available, which is a bit OTT in most circumstances, for the smaller models at least. I’m sure the reason behind making the BT so powerful was so home brewers could boil wort outside during the winter in Norway, at a typical minus 20 brass monkeys.

I was skeptical about the pump too. It seems to be expected to do quite a lot for its keep. I wouldn’t say it creates a whirlpool as such and post boil the wort seems to dribble into the FV. Maybe they should have focused a bit more on the pump rather than the heating capacity?

I think that covers my main criticisms of the system itself. I wasn’t that impressed either with some of the recommended procedures. They seem to be driven by the system’s limitations rather than good brewing practice.

I’ve seen this kind of ‘business model’ in Norway a number of times, where a product or idea gets copied, reinvented, often taken to an extreme, then resold with a lot of online marketing in denial about the functionality, quality and pricing. Oh, and fake online fanboys going weak at the knees and drooling over every staged online announcement. Meme propagating knob heads! They might even have a ‘Red Dot Award’. Whoa! Whatever that is. Did anyone ever buy one of those digital airlocks? #-o We don’t all buy that bollocks, do we? I know Norwegians generally don’t.

If you’ve got money to burn on a ‘midlife adventure’ and you don’t mind paying Nordic markup prices - for Chinese manufactured products - it’s your choice. For a lot less money you can do a lot better, when it comes to wort making, if that’s the intention, as opposed to imaginary ’status’. Don’t let me put you off, though. It’s not my or anyone else’s responsibility to spend your money. I spent mine on modifying the BM20 I already had, which, at the end of the day, is sized correctly for my brewing needs and it fits the available space in our kitchen. I got a short malt pipe for half batches and it’s possible to get 1.5 batches out of the full malt pipe in one session with a little imagination. To be honest, my 7-year-old BM20, despite being well used, is in perfect condition. It’s rock solid. All I’ve ever changed, out of choice, was the pump, several months ago. Got one of the Xylem pumps with adjustable speed control, which seems to make a difference across a range of grists and batch sizes. After drilling a hole in the side wall of my BM and fitting a Blichmann G2 linear flow valve, recirculation, via a RipTide pump, is possible, to send wort through a HopRocket, CFC and it 'whirlpools'. It helps avoid any temperature gradients during chilling too, speeding up the process. I also got kitted out with some nice BacBrewing gear, including a hop spider that goes over the central rod, malt pipe filters, yield disc and filter. All taking the BM20 to another level. I’m very happy with it. It was money well spent, I think.


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LeeH
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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by LeeH » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:43 pm

McMullan wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:45 pm
LeeH wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:27 pm
Braumeisters don’t improve beer over a tin pot, but can make the process more enjoyable.

Just like touch screens.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Actually they do. Improve beer over a tin pot, that is. The apparent 'simplicity' was accidentally engineered on purpose to facilitate automated wort making with an industrial level of consistency. Unlike Nordic knobheads plagiarising all they can to weld and Chinese-together the world's most expensive poorly designed 'Frankenstein' ever :lol:
We will have to agree to disagree as you can make more consistent beer, not necessary better beer.
Sabro Single Hop NEIPA 25/02/20 CLICK ME to monitor progress with Brewfather & iSpindel

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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by McMullan » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:38 pm

:roll:

McMullan

Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by McMullan » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:55 pm

LeeH wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:43 pm
We will have to agree to disagree as you can make more consistent beer, not necessary better beer.
Actually, after investing far too much in a Brewer's yeast lab, I reckon I could ferment an extract kit into a better beer than you could offer up :wink: Fancy a challenge? You up for it? Cheap extract kit stumps beer brewed on expensive BrewTools kit :lol: [-o<

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Braumeister new touch screen

Post by LeeH » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:27 pm

Firstly, you do not know me or my skill set but if it helps you sleep at night knowing you are a better brewer then yes, I’m sure you could brew a kit better than me then I could brew AG on a Brewtools unit.

I’m at a loss how though as you have assured me that all in one systems brews superior beer then a BIAB or a pot on a stove.
LeeH wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:27 pm
Braumeisters don’t improve beer over a tin pot, but can make the process more enjoyable.
McMullan wrote:
Actually they do. Improve beer over a tin pot

Image


Sabro Single Hop NEIPA 25/02/20 CLICK ME to monitor progress with Brewfather & iSpindel

McMullan

Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by McMullan » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:30 pm

It's not about me thinking I'm a better brewer. I believe the comments you posted (above) introduced that idea. I was merely pointing out that I reckon I could produce a better beer using an extract kit than you could using a BrewTools kit, based on the fact I've covered the fermentation side on things quite thoroughly and the fact that it's actually yeast that produce beer regardless. So are you up for it?

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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by richard080561 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:46 pm

McMullan wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:30 pm
It's not about me thinking I'm a better brewer. I believe the comments you posted (above) introduced that idea. I was merely pointing out that I reckon I could produce a better beer using an extract kit than you could using a BrewTools kit, based on the fact I've covered the fermentation side on things quite thoroughly and the fact that it's actually yeast that produce beer regardless. So are you up for it?
So how can you produce a better beer without thinking you are a better brewer? I'm not sure what you mean by "the fact I've covered the fermentation side on things quite thoroughly ", but what ever you mean what makes you think that @leeh hasn't "covered the fermentation side on things quite thoroughly "? And what has yeast producing beer got to do with you being able to produce a better beer from a kit?
Richard M
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McMullan

Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by McMullan » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:57 pm

So how can you produce a better beer without thinking you are a better brewer? Do you find the learning curve that steep? And remind me who actually started typing about 'better brewer' here. I know it wasn't me, because it isn't my style, FFS. Yeast make beer, brewers make wort. If you haven't covered the former don't waste too much time on the latter #-o Are you another BrewTools mug or what?

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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by f00b4r » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:37 am

Let’s keep it civil and on topic please gents.

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Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by nickjdavis » Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:02 pm

Is that an SS Brewtech Whirlpool fitting on the right hand side of the BM?

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McMullan

Re: Braumeister new touch screen

Post by McMullan » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:48 am

Yes, it is an SS Brewtech whirlpool fitting. I started off fitting a Blichmann whirlpool fitting, which requires some modifying to sit outside the malt pipe, but the Brewtech fitting is simpler and just as effective. I'll post some pics later, showing how it's actually fitted, as it required a couple spacers and seals to make it leak free.
.

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