Yorkshire Dubble

[JammyBStard]

Hi All
I have a load of B-Saaz, and I'm not sure what to do with them I'd ike to use what I currently have in my cupboard to make somthing a bit like a strong belgian Pale ale with a big head and a good kick.

I have Pale malt, Crystal malt, Dextrose, I'm going to make some candi sugar, Torrified wheat and belgian ale yeast.

I was thinking of doing somthing like this:

Original Gravity Target: 1.084 SG
Final Gravity Target: 1.020 SG
ABV Target: 8.40
IBU Target: 25.8
Batch Volume: Target: 10.00 L (Mini Mash)

Ingredients for Mashing
2.25 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 65%
0.15 kg Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 5 %

Boil Ingredients
60 min 0.30 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 20%
60 min 0.60 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (147.8 EBC) Sugar 10%
30 min 18.00 gm B Saaz - Craft Brewer - hop flowers. NZ - Crop '08 (AA 8%) [8.00 %] (30 min) Hops
15 min 0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
10 min 15.00 gm B Saaz - Craft Brewer - hop flowers. NZ - Crop '08 (AA 8%) [8.00 %] (10 min) Hops
0 min 27.00 gm B Saaz - Craft Brewer - hop flowers. NZ - Crop '08 (AA 8%) [8.00 %] (0 min) Hops

Primary fermentation (4 days at 18.0 C)
Secondary fermentation (7 days at 18.0 C)

I'm quite new to all this and would appriciate any advice particually; on my sugar ammounts as I've never used sugar before and also if I shoud use any crystal malt.
I'm not bothered about belgian authenticity really just somthing drinkable of that ilk

[Barley Water]

I may not have interepreted your post correctly but I get the impression from the title that you wanted to make a Belgian Dubbel, if that is not correct then stop reading and disregard my comments.

First of all, if you want a Dubbel, I would reduce the starting gravity to around 1.065 or so. Secondly, Dubbels are supposed to be amber beers yet I don't see any colored malts at all. I think you will find that even if you carmelize some sugar, you will have trouble getting the beer dark enough. I would consider some crystal, and especially some Special B (which is actually dark Belgian crystal malt). Finally, back off on the sugar, I wouldn't let it get any higher than about 10% of the grist otherwise you will get an extremely dry beer which may also have a wierd little "twang" in the taste because of all the sugar. You didn't mention the yeast you intended to use or any of the fermentation parameters. I think you will find that many Belgian styles depend on good fermentation contol to get the outcome desired. I use WLP500 which I start at about 65F and let rise to around 75F during the first week of fermentation, so far that has worked pretty well for me.

This is one of my favoite styles and I am still trying to get my formulation just right although I think I am getting close. My last batch also had too high an O.G. because I decided I wanted to add a little date syrup and got carried away (it also made the beer a little darker than I wanted so I will back off next time). I also put some raisins in my version which I think really adds to the taste. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[JammyBStard]

I may not have interepreted your post correctly but I get the impression from the title that you wanted to make a Belgian Dubbel, if that is not correct then stop reading and disregard my comments.

Hi Barley, Thanks for responding a Belgian Dubbel type thing is what I wanted to make, but I dont really want to go overboard on authenticity just yet.

I would consider some crystal, and especially some Special B (which is actually dark Belgian crystal malt).

I do have some regular crystal malt, what sort of % of the grist would you suggest? (I'm also adding an amber Candi Sugar)
This is what I have on my scratch pad at the moment:
- Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 60.00 %
- Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC) Grain 12.12 %
- Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 4.85 %
- Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 4.55%
- Candi Sugar, Amber (147.8 EBC) Sugar 18.48%

You didn't mention the yeast you intended to use or any of the fermentation parameters. I think you will find that many Belgian styles depend on good fermentation contol to get the outcome desired. I use WLP500 which I start at about 65F and let rise to around 75F during the first week of fermentation, so far that has worked pretty well for me.

I was going to use S-33 and do my usual two stage 4 days primary 10 days secondry at a constant 18 degrees; I dont have temperature control.

This is one of my favoite styles and I am still trying to get my formulation just right although I think I am getting close. My last batch also had too high an O.G. because I decided I wanted to add a little date syrup and got carried away (it also made the beer a little darker than I wanted so I will back off next time). I also put some raisins in my version which I think really adds to the taste. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

At what point did you put the raisons in? I've read a bit about coriander seed and orange peel additions, have you ever tried that?

[Barley Water]

Hey, sorry it took me so long to respond.

I have tried a couple things with the raisins and I got the best results by adding about 5oz of raisins (the white ones) about 5 minutes before knockout. What I did was pull off some of the runnings, add the raisins and ran the whole thing through a blender before adding it to the hot wort. The effect I am trying for in general is to get a raisin/plumb/rummy taste going and I think I may be getting close. As far as adding orange peel and coriander, I have not used either in a Dubbel (since I am not trying for that taste) but I do use both in Saison and have had very good luck (my 2008 batch came out really well, we will see what happens in competition). What I do there is grind the coriander seeds in a morter and add them again about 5 minutes before knockout. For orange peel (or other citrus fruit peels for that matter, I also use lemmon and grapefruit) take a potato peeler and pull off just the colored part of the peel (not the white pith underneath which is very bitter) and add it directly to the wort 5 minutes before knockout. I am currently drinking a Belgian Blond which I added a little lemmon peel to, very nice (kind of a Leffe Blond with an attitude). I am not sure how well the orange/citrus flavor and aroma will go with a Dubbel but let us know how it works out for you. Latter this year I will probably try a Belgian Triple and I may well add coriander to that, it kind of just depends on my mood when doing the recipe formulation.

If you don't have temperature control, some of this Belgian stuff gets a little difficult. As I posted, I use WLP500 which is the Chimay strain. Part of the reason for that is that I like the flavor but the other issue with me is that I have now used it enough to have at least a rough idea what to expect. I would suggest investing the the book "Brew Like a Monk". After reading that, (along with "Radical Brewing", also really good) you will not look at brewing beer the same way ever again. In BLAM, there are charts which explain the effects of temperature on the several strains of available Belgian yeasts, worth the price of the book all by itself. Also, there are formulations for all the major Belgian styles which are good starting points for your individual exploration. The only problem with many of these styles is the very high alcholol content, sometimes I just want a good session brew. To that end, if anybody out there has a nice formulation for an Abbey Single, I would really appreciate hearing from you (otherwise, I may just have to try and come up with something myself although there is some information in BLAM to get started).