Educate my palette!

[zooper]

Hi, my beer knowledge doesn't really extend past John Smith's, Boddington's, and Belhaven Best, so I could really do with educating as to what's-what when it comes to tastes.

Back when I lived in Yorkshire, a local pub served what was then my favourite beer - Marston's Pedigree. I liked it because it wasn't very sour/bitter tasting, and for some reason tasted quite 'meaty' - I would describe it to my friends at the time as 'Sunday dinner in a glass'. Since moving to Scotland I haven't seen Pedigree anywhere, so went back to drinking the widely available but not very adventurous Smith's, Boddington's, and Belhaven Best.

I went to the York Brewery tour recently whilst on a short break and tried a pint of their 'Scrum Down' beer. It's a limited beer for the Rugby World Cup, so I can't get it anywhere up here - not even mail order as far as I can tell. It was the nicest beer I've ever tasted - it had the same savoury 'meaty' taste that the Marston's Pedigree did but was even less sour and much more of a gentler taste. Quite nutty, even bread-like. I haven't tasted anything like it and I've been buying bottle upon bottle of different ales since returning to Scotland to find something that matches it, but I haven't managed to find anything that comes remotely close. Everything tastes way too bitter/sour, too fruity, too rich, and nothing I have found has the same mild savoury/meaty/nutty/bready flavour that Martson's Pedigree had and that Scrum Down completely nailed on the head.

So, could anyone help me get terminology and flavours correct so that I know what to look for when sampling other beers to find a substitute? I know that 'maltiness' is supposed to be the sweetness, and 'hoppiness' is supposed to be the bitterness or the sourness, but strangely the Scrum Down was neither particularly bitter nor particularly sweet... it's a very unique flavour to me. Can anyone point me to a guide for this flavour/terminology quandry that I face, so that I may be better armed with knowledge when it comes to picking a recipe to work with? If anyone can offer any recommendations of commercial beers for me to try, I'd also take those with gratitude

Thanks!

[EoinMag]

I think the meaty flavour that you describe is mild yeast autolysis, bovril is a by-product of the brewing industry, they treat the yeast with salt to cause it to autolyse and get that beefy flavour. It's present in some beers and while mostly undesirable, it suits some styles so I think you like your beers mildly autolysed, this can be influenced by regulating the amount of yeast you give to a brew and the length of time you leave it on the yeast cake.

[coatesg]

"Meaty" is definitely a fault in beers - no beer that I know of should taste meaty or like marmite..!

Equally, "sour" is very much different to "bitter" - sour is generally something like a vinegar or a "lactic" taste, which is also generally on off flavour in most (but not all beers).

Some basic flavours that are commonly found in beers are:

"Malty" - this is often a toasty, biscuity flavour, though can also be a sweet, toffee like flavour, depending a lot on the recipe.
"Bitter" - this is from the boiling of hops, and does exactly what it says... gives bitterness that often balances the malt sweetness and alcohol.
"Hoppy" - can sometimes refer to bitterness, but often refers to hop flavour and aroma. There's a variety of different flavours ranging through floral, grassy, earthy, citrus (lemon/orange/grapefuit), tropical fruits (passionfruit, mango, etc), spicy and piney/resinous.

You might like the following diagram which gives an idea of the range of flavours found in beers:

http://www.mashspargeboil.com/the-beer-flavour-wheel/

As for pedigree - you can buy it in the supermarkets in most parts Ii think (but I'm not a fan - a bit "thin" for me as it has a lot of sugar in the recipe which makes it very dry for the ABV)

[zooper]

Thanks for the information guys, I've got a lot to be going on with! Perhaps I used the wrong word when I said meaty... I certainly haven't tasted Marmite in my beers I think a better word would have been savoury - the Scrum Down in particular wasn't very sweet or bitter, it was just kind of... 'savoury'. I have a lot to learn when it comes to this I think!

[coatesg]

I doubt "savoury" is the right word really - I think you might be looking to describe a "balanced" beer. Usually a good word to describe a beer that is neither particularly sweet or particularly bitter - usually makes them particularly quaffable . (Though you get elements of both malt sweetness and hop bitterness in the taste)

[metal micky]

Just read this but if it helps I know where you are coming from with the hop sour taste, I used to like malty beers, as I tried more of the light hoppy beers the sour taste went, and now I can appreciate both types of beer, it all started when the local pub had a beer appreciation seminar given by the head brewer at adnams, he went through a couple of their beers so you could taste the different flavours. If you get the chance to attend a beer tasting or the next time you go to a brewery ask them to point out the flavours.