13% imperial stout advice please

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floydmeddler
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13% imperial stout advice please

Post by floydmeddler » Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:21 pm

Hi guys,

I'm planning a huge imperial stout and am looking for any helpful advice before I brew it. I guess my main worry is that it won't finish low enough and I'll be left with a FG of 1.040!! It's happened before.

So far, I've decided to do an overnight mash starting at 64c in the hope of creating more fermentable sugars and bumping up the efficiency. Any more advice would be most welcome. Particularly on suitable yeast strain. Here's the recipe. It's Brewdogs/Amundsen's collab 'Mallow Mafia'. I won't be adding marshmallow though! Will bitter with Magnum. Cheers!


Size: 21.0 L @ 20 °C
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 433.26 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.128 (1.000 - 1.100)
Terminal Gravity: 1.032 (1.000 - 1.100)
Color: 51.84 (0.0 - 50.0)

Ingredients:
6,002.5 g (50.3%) Maris Otter - added during mash
245.0 g (2.1%) Dark Crystal Malt - added during mash
980.0 g (8.2%) Wheat Malt - added during mash
490.0 g (4.1%) Roasted Barley - added during mash
612.5 g (5.1%) Brown Malt - added during mash
245.0 g (2.1%) Oat Flakes - added during mash
1,715.0 g (14.4%) Chocolate Malt - added during mash
980.0 g (8.2%) Munich Malt - added during mash
656.25 g (5.5%) Light Brown Sugar - added during boil, boiled 5 m

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by IPA » Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:38 pm

A suitable yeast would be a J1 slant from Brewlab. It came from a bottle of Courage Russian Stout brewed in1984. I revived it about five years ago and sent it to Brewlab for storage.
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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by floydmeddler » Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:09 pm

Cool! Cheers IPA

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by MashBag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:48 pm

I would add the light brown sugar much later in the ferment. Draw off some of the wort (about a litre or two) dissolve the sugar in it and return.

Use a strong starter, or good yeast dose.

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by f00b4r » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:48 pm

Lots of healthy yeast! We are talking 5 packs of dry yeast or a really big starter; in the case of wet yeast you are probably better brewing as weaker beer and then using the yeast cake.
Also check that the yeast that you are using will tolerate the ABV that you want to reach, a lot will not.

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by guypettigrew » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:14 pm

MashBag wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:48 pm
I would add the light brown sugar much later in the ferment. Draw off some of the wort (about a litre or two) dissolve the sugar in it and return.
Good call, MB. For two reasons.

Firstly, sugar added during the boil will be subject to the usual efficiency losses caused by the hops in the boiler retaining some of the wort. So 660g of sugar in the boil won't equate to 660g in the fermenter.

Secondly, with a beer of this high OG the yeast may struggle. Best to let it get going, chomp through some of the sugar and drop the gravity, then add the sugar.

Guy

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by MashBag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:50 pm

guypettigrew wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:14 pm


Secondly, with a beer of this high OG the yeast may struggle. Best to let it get going, chomp through some of the sugar and drop the gravity, then add the sugar.

Guy
I think we are agreeing here. Are you saying...

... chomp through some of the sugars (in the wort) and drop the gravity, then add the sugar (light brown)?

Yeast do like a bit of late sugar, particularly if added when they are just slowing down.

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by MashBag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:53 pm

While we are on the subject... Why do recipes suggest adding sugar to the boil. Always seems pointless to me. Must be missing something.

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by floydmeddler » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:50 pm

Cheers guys. Sugar at end of ferment makes sense. It's how I add honey actually.

F00bfr, the yeast cake idea actually crossed my mind. I could brew a classic 4% English pale and use the yeast. It'll be a seriously messy ferment I imagine! Blow off tube will be required for sure.

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by Jocky » Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:51 pm

From a starting gravity of 1.130 I wouldn’t be worried about a FG of 1.040. I certainly don’t think you need an overnight mash. 90 minutes at plus a slow sparge should be fine.

For a beer this big you’re going to need a lot of yeast though. Ideally a yeast cake from a recently finished beer, using a yeast that has a decent alcohol tolerance.
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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by Northern Brewer » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:43 pm

floydmeddler wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:21 pm
Particularly on suitable yeast strain.
WLP540 Abbey IV is a useful yeast for this kind of thing, it's British despite the name and has good alcohol tolerance.

This presentation has some useful tips :
https://quaff.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... tion-1.ppt

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by floydmeddler » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:00 am

Thanks guys. :-)

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by SMASH3R » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:10 am

Only just seen this.

As a massive fan of Belgians, I have tried a few white labs Belgian yeasts, and I'm a massive fan of WLP500 (reported the Chimay strain). Ferment cool for neutral yeast profile (17 degrees), or ramp up to 22-24 degrees for some funky clove/babana/ester typical Belgian style flavours. I would expect the yeast can manage 13%.
As others have said, use the yeast cake from a weaker brew.

One of my favourites is Puckin Ale from this forum fermented with the Chimay yeast, start at 18 and quickly raise the temperate to 22 after a day of vigorous fermentation.

Another recommendation is to add Belgian Candy syrup that you make in a pan on the hob using water, sugar and a little DAP (yeast nutrient). I always refer to this forum post which has a great guide:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/20 ... nt.114837/

Add the can do syrup after 5 or 7 days when the yeast has done a lot of heavy lifting already on the grain. I wouldn't be afraid to try for 30-50% of the ABV from the Can do syrup. I think a 7kg grain bill would give you plenty of body.

Don't forget to be prepared to construction this bad boy in bottles or the keg for 6 months+

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by SMASH3R » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:17 am

The following is a direct copy from the link i gave above. All credit to SnickASaurusRex in his post, which as I say, has helped me out loads of times.



"I just blew through 20 lbs of sugar and a jar of DAP yeast nutrient trying to perfect my caramelized "Candi Syrup" recipe. and this is what I came up with.

The basic ideas for the recipe are from Radical Brewing, Randy Mosher, and from Brew Like a Monk and Stan Hieronymus. I spent some time working on a procedure that seems to work really well. The procedures came from various books on candy making and internet resources. Both recipes are temperature sensitive and absolutely dependent on the use of a candy or deep fry thermometer. Do not turn the temperature up past medium. This will result in bitterness and a burnt flavor.

These recipes make ~1 quart.

Sugar #4
This is a simple caramel that can be made into syrups with different colors and flavor characteristics. I made and took notes on six different terminal temperatures from 250F to 300F.

The procedure for making the syrups starts with 2 lbs of sugar, a varied amount of Di-Ammonium Phosphate (DAP Yeast Nutrient), and 1 cup of water. You bring these three ingredients to a boil over medium heat. You do not want to stir, the gentle convections will do all the mixing that is necessary. Using a thermometer, stop the boil at the desired terminal temperature by adding a varied amount of water while gently stirring the solution. This is the dangerous part, a fair amount of spitting and sputtering might occur. After adding the water you will need to dissolve the syrup by stirring gently until the solution reaches the stage called soft ball (240F). This is when the syrup is done. Stop the cooking by submerging the pan in cool water or by transferring the syrup to a preheated mason jar.

Rose (250F)
-Clear, slightly rosy color. This syrup is sweet and sugary with very little to no character flavors.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
1/2 tsp DAP
1/2 Cup Water

Light (260F)
-Apricot colored with mild flavors reminiscent of peaches and white grape juice. Some very mild warm flavors like soft rounded vanilla.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
1 tsp DAP
3/4 Cup Water

Light Amber (270F)
-Apricot to light amber in color with some red tones developing. Mild caramel flavors with some soft sweet fruit characters developing. Mellow flat vanilla flavor with some warm cardamom tones. Maybe plums and dried apricots in the distant background.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
1 and 1/2 tsp DAP
1 Cup Water

Medium Amber (280F)
-Amber colored. Strong caramels and intensifying cardamom and plum flavors. Some roasted flavor developing but not bitter.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
2 tsp DAP
1 and 1/4 Cup Water

Deep Amber (290F)
-Deep amber with full red colors. Raisins and plums are the dominant flavors with a hint of toast and coffee. Some rummy and mildly woody flavors. Strong complex caramels are present. It is a sophisticated sweetness with a robust, full characteristic. This is my favorite.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
2 and 1/2 tsp DAP
1 and 1/2 Cup Water

Mahogany (300F)
-Mahogany, more brown than red in color. Raisins and figs with some mild bitterness developing. There is a tart sweetness, and a loss of complex caramel flavors. The caramels are replaced by bittersweet toast and burnt sugar characters. It is rich and decadent but not as complex as 290F.
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
3 tsp DAP
1 and 3/4 Cup Water


Sugar #5

This is a double cooked sugar that further increases the flavors of 290F without compromising the complex caramels. Think of this sugar as an extension of the 290F recipe. Everything about it is intensified. The procedure is a bit more complicated and it takes nearly an hour to complete, but it is worth the time and effort.
Over medium heat bring to a boil
2 Lbs Sugar
1 Cup Water
3 tsp DAP
Raise this to the terminal temperature of 290F. At 290F begin stirring and add in:
1 Cup Water
Continue stirring until the sugars are dissolved. Again, bring the solution up to 290F over medium heat. At 290F begin stirring and add in:
1 Cup of Water
Stir this until the sugars are dissolved and the temperature starts to rise a couple degrees. This Should be right at or just above soft ball (240F). This is when the syrup is done. Stop the cooking by submerging the pan in cool water or by transferring the syrup to a preheated mason jar."

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Re: 13% imperial stout advice please

Post by Shadoxhurst » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:53 pm

I've brewed an impy based around this, and it was lovely. Just a normal mash and a slow sparge


http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2019 ... 41d53f.jpg[/IMG]

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