TTL: Caramelize or not?

[Benjy Edwards]

I'm reporting the results of my caramelised batch. I don't think I boiled the first runnings enough, because I detect no toffee-ish flavours, nor is the colour as dark as commercial Landlord. I was hesitant to reduce the wort to a syrup, but in hindsight that is what I should have done. My reduction was about one gallon (4 litres) of first runnings boiled down to around half a gallon (2 litres).

[delboy]

I've been giving this some thought lately, if we want caramel flavour in our beer would it not just be best to add caramel in the first place, if we made it using normal white castor sugar you could easily tell when it had caramelised. Doing it using the first runnings is more difficult when you think about it because you have to evaporate a very large amount of liquid before you would be caramelising also it would be much harder to notice the colour change. I would imagine most people (my self included have simply been making a thick syrup of the runnings rather than caramel )

[mysterio]

I did my version with some invert sugar and brewers caramel for colour. Boiled the crap out of about 7L down to about 2L. Loads of Styrians at the end of the boil, we'll see how it goes. Smell from the FV is amazing!

I'm not sure about crystal malt, i've made versions in the past using crystal and it wasn't quite right. Maybe the yeast will make a difference.

[Benjy Edwards]

Perhaps it is the yeast, at least in part. It does seem hard to believe that yeast alone could make a beer taste of toffee or caramel, though.

Sam Smith's yeast and the fermentation in Yorkshire squares certainly contribute to their beers' characteristic flavour, which some describe as diacetyl. I must be insensitive to diacetyl, because it has never offended me. Some people hate the taste, saying it tastes of butter.

I haven't tried the Taylor yeast, but it's available now through Wyeast. Anyone who has used it care to comment on its flavour contribution?

[mysterio]

I've got a batch probably just finished fermenting with it now, i'll draw of a sample and let you know, Benjy.

As for Sam Smiths, I haven't noticed any Diacatyl in their beers, well maybe a smidgen in their pale ale, but I have no doubt their Yorkshire Squares and yeast strain provide most of their flavour.

[Benjy Edwards]

Forgive me for dredging up this old thread, but I was curious as to whether there were any reports on how the caramelisation efforts turned out? I am planning to brew a clone of Sam Smith's OBB this weekend and I think I will try caramelising a portion of the wort in order to achieve a toffee flavour similar to the real thing. Perhaps reducing 2 or 3 litres down to half a litre in a 38L batch?

[Barley Water]

Well, the batch I did last fall is long gone. I however saved off three bottles to enter in the Bluebonnet (a very large homebrew contest held locally, around 1,300 entries this year). I got decent scores back but sadly did not make it into the second round. The judges said that they liked the beer alot but thought that the hops were overwhelming (if I remember correctly I scored in the low 30's so at least the beer was not swill). I tend to agree so next time I make this (which will again be in the fall since that is when the yeast becomes available) I am going to cut out the dry hopping and go for more caramelization. I do sometimes wonder if folks on this side of the pond know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to British styles but I did agree with the judges comments. The thing about British beer when compared to some of the American craft brew stuff is that many have more subtle flavors comparatively speaking. The thing about Americans in general (and especially Texans) is that there is absolutely nothing subtle going on so who really knows. I did however enjoy the beer which is the imporatant thing, right?

[Grot]

Forgive me for dredging up this old thread, but I was curious as to whether there were any reports on how the caramelisation efforts turned out? I am planning to brew a clone of Sam Smith's OBB this weekend and I think I will try caramelising a portion of the wort in order to achieve a toffee flavour similar to the real thing. Perhaps reducing 2 or 3 litres down to half a litre in a 38L batch?

Mine didn't really get any toffee flavor but it did darken it up.

White Labs have what looks to be Samuel Smith's yeast available in the fall. I might give an OBB type recipe then as I think the yeast is really important for that beer.

[bosium]

I am once again resurrecting this thread as I've been meaning to have a crack at this myself for some time - TTL is one of my favourite, if not my favourite British beer.

I simply cannot believe that TTL is made entirely from base malt. I had a bottle last night and it's got a rich caramel flavour to it that simply must be crystal malt of some sort, at least in part. I mean, it means nothing to say that the beer is made entirely from Golden Promise - GP is a cultivar like Maris Otter or Halcyon and could be malted and roasted and made into any specialty malt and it would still be GP.

I was thinking of perhaps 4% caramalt and 4% pale crystal, or maybe some combination using pale and normal crystal, or maybe even just pale and caramalt coupled with the wort caramelisation trick?

I don't have the 1469 unfortunately, but I'll keep my eyes out for it when it comes available. All I have is WLP002 but I'm not sure it will impart the right character (might still be mighty tasty though).

Thoughts from those who've been here before?

[mysterio]

I think the caramelisation is a bit of a waste of time (and quite messy), I think it's combination of crystal malt and yeast after trying a few times. I think you would need 4% caramalt and 4% medium crystal to get closer to the colour. Plenty of Styrians at 0 minutes!

[DarloDave]

The cask verion is a lot lighter and less toffeeish than the bottle version am I right in thinking? Its been a while since I've had either. Im sure I remember the bottle version being maltier, and the cask version a lot hoppier.

[bosium]

I've had both and I have to say I'm one of the few who prefer the bottle. The cask is cracking too though...

[mysterio]

Yeah the bottle is filtered and it is lacking a bit in hop flavour/aroma. The lightness may be because it has less body and/or is highly carbed. Although it is still nice bottled. I'm totally sick of the cask version now, I drank it pretty much non stop a year or two ago and now it makes me gag

[GeeThom]

is the Wyeast 1469 available now and where from? Cant see it at Hop & Grape and I'm passing their door tomorrow

I am sure I used a reccomended White labs yeast last year for TTL but cant remember which one?
Any ideas?

[GeeThom]

Sorry, forgot to mention that the batch I made last was as GW recipe and I caramelised approx 4 litres of wort.
Turned out a nice beer and a close approximation. I asked a TTL expert friend of mine and he said it tasted more like the draught than the bottled beer. He often refers to TTL as the "beer to which all others should be compared"

Planning at least one more batch once I get the yeast sorted