The Rev. James

[dean_wales]

Decided that, as we are pretty sure the beer is pale malt plus a little of some form of wheat and sugar... the color of 30EBC+ is not fully achievable with those ingredients alone.

So I will adjust with some brewers caramel (or Weyermann® Sinamar® which is similar and easyily available from Rob). Will only need a little in the batch half with treacle but a bit more in the half with no treacle.

The ale is not noticeably spicy and so I don't think the grains of paradise are present. It has lingering depth of sweetness which may or may not be helped by some liquorice but the dosage will be very low as I get no liquorice aroma.

Right recipes as they stand below updated on the BeerSmith cloud...

2013 - Rev James (with treacle)
2013 - Rev James (no treacle)

And below for the old skool!

2013 - Rev James (with treacle)
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 30 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4100.0 g Maris Otter (Crisp) (7.9 EBC) Grain 1 83.8 %
250.0 g Pale Wheat (Dingemans) (3.2 EBC) Grain 2 5.1 %
85.0 g Sugar (Priming) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 3 1.7 %
30.00 g Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 4 23.5 IBUs
0.25 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
30.00 g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 4.8 IBUs
30.00 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop 7 5.3 IBUs
10.00 g Liquorice Root (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 8 -
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 Yeast 9 -
8.0 g Brewers Caramel (9000.0 EBC) Adjunct 10 0.2 %
450.0 g Black Treacle Syrup (197.0 EBC) Sugar 11 9.2 %


Single Infusion mash for medium body 66.7c for 90 min

2013 - Rev James (no treacle)
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 30 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %


Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4100.0 g Maris Otter (Crisp) (7.9 EBC) Grain 1 83.6 %
250.0 g Pale Wheat (Dingemans) (3.2 EBC) Grain 2 5.1 %
450.0 g Lyle's Golden Syrup (0.0 EBC) Extract 3 9.2 %
19.0 g Sinamar (Wyermann) (8350.0 EBC) Extract 4 0.4 %
85.0 g Sugar (Priming) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 5 1.7 %
30.00 g Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 6 22.5 IBUs
0.25 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
25.00 g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 3.8 IBUs
25.00 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop 9 4.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 Yeast 10 -

Single Infusion mash for Light Body 64.4c for 90 min


Still cant quite decide whether to do one or both recipes. I have deliberately set them up so that they could be made at the same time by splitting a 50 litre batch after the boil before adding sugars and adjuncts etc.

Feedback more than welcome particularily on sugar types/amounts and if you think 30IBU and 30EBC are roughly correct.

Dean.

[Ribbit]

I was a barman that handled a lot of the original Reverend James, prior to Buckley's being taken over by Brains. For a while it was still brewed in Llanelli at the old Buckley brewery. It was an absolutely fantastic pint, and was rotated in regularly to our 4 real ale engines (the really frequent ones with extended stays were Rev James, Wadworth's 6X, and Courage Directors).

Rev James became a completely different pint once Brains started brewing it, and the regulars we rotated it in for, didn't like the new brew (it's ok, but not a patch on the Buckley one), so we rotated a few more in to find a nice substitute for them, and they settled on Hobgoblin. Sod's Law, the Hobgoblin brew got changed on them as well (it's not a patch on the original, which I loved, and the present mess, is a mess).

Still, we had built up quite a list of brews most liked (I used to give samples to see if people took to a brew, and regulars soon got to know what to ask to bring back, and what to never re-order), so we rotated that list through two of the pumps a fair bit for them.

So anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about aiming for the Brains Rev James. You should be able to get a far superior pint by going for anything that relates to the Buckley's version.

Of course if the Brains one suits you, the Brains one suits you.

I do wish these breweries would stop messing around with their product though. They have far more than enough profit to make sure they keep doing it right.

Oh and sorry I can't contribute a recipe. I did do a huge amount of homebrew years ago, and am only just getting back into it (probably going to stick with quick and easy for a while at least). I could keep the beer right and deliver it right (strangely rare skills today, for some reason), which kept the CAMRA regulars and everyone else happy, and that'll do me.

[SamT]

I do wish these breweries would stop messing around with their product though. They have far more than enough profit to make sure they keep doing it right.

I kinda agree - some changes are unavoidable - year to year malt chemical composition changes, certain hop types may become impossible or unaffordable to purchase, but they should willfully bugger about with it for no good reason

[dean_wales]

I haven't been drinking it as long as Ribbit but like ale commercial ales I have noticed it become slightly more bland over the years. A home brewed version however will likely retain more of the richness the original had even if it followed the modern version ingredients wise.

I wonder if there is anyway of contacting someone who was at Buckley who might help with some idea of ingredients or process?

Might not be so Brains washed into secrecy!

[swanjack]

Taken from my local free paper

[dean_wales]

I wonder if we found his address if we could write to him, brewer to brewer and said "we are having a stab at the recipe... are we in the right ball park?".

Hang on, just found the guy on LinkedIn. Will send him a message and let you know how I get on!

[dean_wales]

Hmmm doesn't seem you can message on LinkedIn (to non-contacts) without paying.

I am searching for his email address. I did find this whilst looking:

http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2012/06 ... at-brains/

Seems to confirm a rumour that Rev James uses a cleaner fermenting ale yeast rather than a ester-rich fruity yeast? That would rule my suggestion of Windsor out though!

Hmmm...

[DEV]

hi this isnt far from the draught version,tweak next time to your own brewing method taste
try this ; pale malt 3.75kg
crystal malt 0.15kg
torrified wheat 0.5kg
chocolate malt 0.05kg
cane sugar 0.1kg
hops : challenger 25g @ 90 mins
Fuggles 25g @ 90 mins
Goldings 20g @ 0 mins
Yeast : So4

[dean_wales]

CAMRA just gave me his email address so I am going to write to him and see if he will give a clue as to how close we are... I don't expect much but anything would be good!

Dean.

[dean_wales]

Might be mistake here but...

Is there somewhere you can send samples of beer to be tested for an IBU value and/or mineral content?

Dean.

[dean_wales]

OK just sent him this email... Let's wait and see if we get a reply... Fingers crossed!

Dear Jon,

Your email address was kindly passed to my by Brian at CAMRA.

I see from the articles in the press that you recently retired from the Brains Brewery and formerly worked at Buckley's. Being a proud Welshman I have enjoyed the beers of both breweries but was always particularly fond of The Rev James. I gather you devised the original recipe for that beer and for that I would like to congratulate you on a piece of brewing genius!

As I now live in Devon I can't get hold of the cask version very easily and the bottled version just isn't the same. So along with some fellow home brewers, I have recently been trying to put together our own home brewed version of The Rev James for those time when we are a little homesick and can't get home to the valleys. I don't know if you would be willing/allowed to give us a few hints to help us on our way?

The recipe we came up with is based on taste/guesswork but also two books (HomeBrewer's Database by Les Howarth, Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher). These books suggest that:
The grain bill might be pale malt plus some roasted/malted/torrified wheats for colour and flavour. No crystal malts.
The hops are thought to be Challenger for bittering and Fuggles and Goldings for flavour and aroma.
The beer may include invert syrup, but more importantly treacle/molasses for colour and flavour.
The beer may include liquorice or other spices as these were widely used in Welsh brewing in the 1800's.
Original Gravity is 1.045 and alcohol content is of course 4.5%.

I gather from some online blogs that the yeast used for Rev James is a cleaner fermenting yeast than the one used for the other Brains brews. Therefore we are guessing that an rich, low attenuating yeast such as the Fuller's strain would not be suitable. I hear that the drier Whitbread strain was used by many welsh breweries and it seems to fit the attenuation needed, so have used that in our recipe. I dropped my hydrometer in a glass of room temperature, degassed Rev James and it suggested final gravity was around 1.011

Using those clues we came up with the two recipes I have enclosed to this email. One with treacle and one without. Both use Sinamar (a sort of brewers caramel) to adjust the colour as we struggled to achieve what we reckon to be 35 EBC without it. We have estimated the total bitterness to be about 30 IBU.

You will laugh no doubt as we are probably way off the mark, but we tried our best! Before we start brewing lots of trial and error batches (it's a tough life!) I would be so grateful if you could give us some advice on any of the following - yeast, mash temperature, grains, adjuncts and hopping schedule.

Thanks for your time and enjoy your retirement!

Kind Regards,

Dean Holland.

[dean_wales]

In writing this email and doing the last bit of research (yeast tip off came from this blog http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2012/06 ... -at-brains/) I rewrote the two recipes a little more.

You can view them here and here.

Dean.

[soupdragon]

My comment may be a week late but, sterling work sir.

Lets hope that you get the reply that we all hope for. That's one beer I always enjoy

Cheers Tom

[dean_wales]

Nothing yet so not looking like it is all that promising.

Fingers crossed.

Dean.

[Normski]

Might be mistake here but...

Is there somewhere you can send samples of beer to be tested for an IBU value and/or mineral content?

Dean.

Hi Dean
You doing great work here mate. well done.
Murphy's do an analysis service.

Combined analysis
(OG, PG, ABV, Colour and Bitterness)

Just a thought, You've emailed to Jon, but the news paper cutting says he's called Don.

Norm