Geinnis IPA

[delboy]

Planning on maybe getting an IPA done this friday.

Thinking along the lines of the below recipe, what do people think.

70 % efficency 1060 target, 25 EBC and 54 IBUs

EDITED RECIPE

MO 6.2 Kg
Crystal 0.4 Kg

mash at 66C for 90 mins

Cascade 90 min (FWH) 20g
Cascade 60 min 50g
cascade 10 min 15g
styrians 10min 15g
fuggle 10 min 15g

Steep with 30g of cascade, 10g of fuggles and 10g of stryians

Ferment with 2 sachets of SO4

Depending on hop flavour and aroma dry hop with 20g of cascade and 5g each of fuggles and stryians.

[stevezx7r]

Yikes, looks like a hoppy number

[delboy]

Its my attempt to recreate goose island (Ge innis ) IPA using the hops i have in the freezer, i have everything that the beer calls for except the centenial so im pushing the cascade to the fore to compensate, although i suppose amarillo might make a decent sustitute

[mysterio]

Goose Island IPA is a cracker, who would have thought Fuggles though, infact i wouldn't even guess Styrians from tasting it. Good luck with it

[delboy]

Hi mysty i got that hop combination straight from the horses mouth (their website) maybe they just pay lip service to the stryians and the fuggles though, i could imagine them easily getting lost in amongst the cascade and centinnial.

Chris thats a lot of food for thought about the late hop additions I obviously don't want to dismiss the learned graham and aleman (and the others mentioned) but at the same time im trying to recreate a specific american interpretation of an IPA (an APA i suppose) and not a tradational IPA.
Of course the problem is that i haven't been able to pin down any info on typical goose island hopping schedules some im presuming that they do what a lot of american microbrewerys seem to do and thats hop often and late. Hopefully one of our american brewers can shed a bit of light on this (have you found out anything about their typical schedule?).
Thats a good point about the hop additions that are neither late or early i might lose those 30 min additions and instead integrate them into the 90/75 min addition.

I've not had a huge amount of sucess with steeping hops TBH, personally i like to see them boiled for at least a min so that they have taken in some wort and are well mixed (also i like to think that im at least getting some value for money out of those big additions )
Maybe i need to be less tight fisted and give 70-80C steeping another go

[delboy]

Thats pretty sound advice i reckon chris, it is easy to get carried away with recipes, i've managed to keep the malts simple so maybe i should do the same with the hops.
Look out for an edit on the original recipe

[delboy]

I was reading Greg Noonans take on the whole hop boiling stability thing. He suggests that beers hopped early have better stability due to increased precipitation of proteins, hop tannins and hop particles. But that bitterness derived from a longer boil is coarser than that from a more moderate period.

He advocates adding only a fraction of the hops at the start of the boil, boiling them for 15-30 minutes to allow precipitation to occur before adding the major bittering addition.

Almost like the first hops are the sacrificial lambs to the protein precipitation.

On that advice i’d be better off splitting my bittering addition to something like 20g of cascade at 90 mins and the remaining 50g at 60 min for a smoother bitterness (not unlike what aleman does actually).

If his theory holds any water I wonder is that part of the reason why FWH (with a proportion of the bittering hops) is reported to yield a smoother bitterness since they would in essence be acting as the sacrificial hops

[delboy]

He suggests that beers hopped early have better stability due to increased precipitation of proteins, hop tannins and hop particles. But that bitterness derived from a longer boil is coarser than that from a more moderate period.

That is unsuprising as it conforms with the widely held belief that the mechanical colloidal action of the hops assists in the coagulation of proteins.

He advocates adding only a fraction of the hops at the start of the boil, boiling them for 15-30 minutes to allow precipitation to occur before adding the major bittering addition.

That is supprising (and I don't agree with that at all), hops added around that time are likely to see notable isomerisation of the alpha acids but are less likely to have the unpleasant volatile components boiled off than hops added at 60 or 90 mins.

Hops added very late in the boil should release their essential oils and impart flavour and aroma but hopefully little else.

Regarding FWHing, is the smoother bitterness due to some complex reaction that takes place at lower temperatures or is it because the hops are subjected to the temperature at which the volatile components are driven off at for longer ? Has anyone compared the flavour of a fwh-ed beer boiled for 90 mins with one that has been boiled for say 120 mins, would this have the same effect ? (I suspect it might)

I coud be wrong chris this is only my interpretation of what he seems to be saying.

Just to clarify he reckons adding a small amount of hops at 90 min mark to prevent foam overs and help in precipitation of proteins which amongst other things bind to hop resins etc.
Then add the main bittering addition at the 60 min mark so as to have a 'smoother bitterness'.

Sod it i'll type out a flavour of what he says on hops


Noonan on Hops
Adding hops early on in the boil ensures greater utilisation of bittering principles and a more complete precipitation of proteins, hop tannins and hop particles.
The bitterness derived from long boiling is coarser than that from a more moderate period; for this reason, it is usual to add only a fraction of the hops at the start of the boil.

Some of the hop polyphenols are transported into the ferment in combination with simple albumins, forming tiny substances-in-solution known as colloids. This colloidal matter is not significantly precipitated and is involved in forming the body and head of the finished beer. Because their surface area is disproportionately greater than their volume, colloids do not readily settle out of solution. Consequently their contribution to the beer’s body is not offset by inherent instability, as is the case with noncolloidal protein.

It is common to add 5 to 15 percent of the hops at or before the onset of boiling to break the surface tension of the wort so that it does not throw up as voluminous a protein head and boil over. When the wort is the product of an infusion mash, it should be boiled vigorously for fifteen to thirty minutes before more of the hops are added to allow the boiling action to decompose and precipate some of the proteins. If this is not accomplished before the hops are added, then hop polyphenols will combine with the coarse protein flocks and be precipitated out of solution, carrying hop resins with them.

Beers that are heavily hopped in the beginning of the boil exhibit a cleaner krausen fermentation head and are more stable than beers hopped later, but the hop bitterness will be coarser and less pleasant. It is essential, however that most of the hops should be vigorously boiled in the uncovered wort for forty-five minutes or more to efficiently isomerize alpha acid and precipitate tannin and proteins. Generally a small portion of the bittering hops is added to the kettle with the first mash runoff. The largest part is added to the boil for forty five to sixty minutes. A smaller portion may be cast onto the wort fifteen to thirty minutes before the boil ends. Finishing hops, which give the beer a spicy hop flavour and bouqet, may be added within the last minutes of the boil, as the wort is struck from the kettle, or as an extract during fermentation.

[adm]

I don't about the ins and outs of the hopping schedules, but I do know I like Goose Island IPA

Have a good brewday Delboy! I'm sure however you end up doing it it will taste great.

[DarloDave]

did you brew this one del? did it turn out like Goose Island IPA? if you had centennial, where and when would they go do you know?