A "very red" beer

[dave-o]

This is in preparation for spending the Christmas "grain vouchers" i will hopefully get.

Basically, i want to make a shockingly red beer, as much as that is possible. Something that looks like cranberry juice ideally.

I gather that Munich malt is where i want to be, so i have two ideas here:

1) Just Munich;
3-4 kilos of munich and nothing else

2) Something like
3000g Munich
500g Pale Malt (or lager malt?)
300g Crystal (or would this add unwanted colour?)

As i have never used Munich malt before, i have no idea how red it actually is.

Advice appreciated.

[mysterio]

It's not really red.. more orangey.

A dash of carafa, choc malt or roasted barley will help. Or some cara-red malt.

[dave-o]

Mmm, cara-red looks interesting. Max 15% of grist?

So:

3000g Munich
600g Cara-red
400g pale/lager malt?


Or could i get away with pushing the cara-red above 15%

[mysterio]

I wouldn't go above 10% personally. It's a crystal malt remember.

Something like 1% chocolate or roasted barley will really emphasise the red.

Also the option of food colouring.

[dave-o]

I don't want to use colouring.

So we're now at:

3000g Munich
400g cara-red
600g pale/lager
30g Roasted

A couple of things:

-The pale/lager malt is there because wiki tells me that munich will convert itself but needs help from a standard malt to convert other malts (i.e. the cara-red and roasted). Is this true in this case, or could i just forget the pale/lager altogether?
-If keeping it in, would i be better with pale or with lager, for taste, texture and colour?
-Will this be "really red"?

[coatesg]

I think you'll struggle to get it red like cranberry juice, unless you add fruit to a pale type beer! Which is a good point - what type of beer are you looking to brew?

A kriek or framboise are really red beers...but given your starting recipe, I guess that's not what you're after! In fact, Guinness is red too if you hold it up to the light... If it's just an ale you're after, I'd go with roast barley to get the red rather than brown, but you'll have to play around to get it right (think you want to aim for about 26-32SRM). If you're taking the colour from the roast barley, then you don't need that level of munich, unless you want it for the flavour characteristics it provides.

[dave-o]

I think you'll struggle to get it red like cranberry juice, unless you add fruit to a pale type beer! Which is a good point - what type of beer are you looking to brew?

Well actually i'm trying to create a fiery beer with plenty of root ginger and with the natural colour as red as possible. I had a feeling that cranberry juice colour would probably be a bridge too far, but i would like it to be at least unusually red, so that the unsuspecting drinker would be surprised by its colour.

As regards the munich, i have never brewed with it, so i like the idea of brewing something predominantly Munich. It's not like it's particularly expensive, and i was imagining its orangeness would provide a good base for the red/roast to work their colouring magic.
I think Kriek/Framboise is a white beer coloured by cherries and raspberries respectively, no? I'm trying to create the colour with the grains.

What kind of colour do you imagine the above recipe would achieve?

And any input into the use or otherwise of pale/lager, for the reason specified?

[mysterio]

Most kriek is a soured brown ale (oud bruin) steeped on cherries.

I think you're going to get a dark brownish red with that recipe. Munich malt has a great flavour as a base malt.

[dave-o]

I think you're going to get a dark brownish red with that recipe.

WIll the brownishness be due to the roast or the munich? I want light red if at all possible.

[SiHoltye]

Sorry to give more to think about but I wouldn't trust crystal to round out/mellow before Christmas at a rate over 5% now. It may overpower anything else. Also, I haven't used Munich malt before but think it's malty so a lot of crystal might be OTT in the flavour stakes?

[traymondo]

I think you'll struggle to get it red like cranberry juice, unless you add fruit to a pale type beer! Which is a good point - what type of beer are you looking to brew?

A kriek or framboise are really red beers...but given your starting recipe, I guess that's not what you're after! In fact, Guinness is red too if you hold it up to the light... If it's just an ale you're after, I'd go with roast barley to get the red rather than brown, but you'll have to play around to get it right (think you want to aim for about 26-32SRM). If you're taking the colour from the roast barley, then you don't need that level of munich, unless you want it for the flavour characteristics it provides.

Used to brew a nice Red with Crystal Rye...if you can find it.
Failing that, there's always Vimto...

[dave-o]

Sorry to give more to think about but I wouldn't trust crystal to round out/mellow before Christmas at a rate over 5% now.

This isn't for Christmas. No time limit on it. The mention of Christmas was just that i may be getting H&G vouchers with which to purchase the grains.

[dave-o]

-The pale/lager malt is there because wiki tells me that munich will convert itself but needs help from a standard malt to convert other malts (i.e. the cara-red and roasted). Is this true in this case, or could i just forget the pale/lager altogether?
-If keeping it in, would i be better with pale or with lager, for taste, texture and colour?
-If keeping it in, how much would be the minimum?

I' still really appreciate any input into these questions if anyone has any.

Thanks.

[hazard]

Cara red and roast barley don't require conversion so I think you'll be OK. If you are still worried, extend mash time to 90 min or 2 hour.

I am keen to get a really red beer as well - many of them are more amber than red. Last recipe I tried went like this:
Pale malt 84%
Cara red 10%
Melanoiden 5%
Roast barley 1%

Coming out of the mash tun it looked somewhat pale so I added 100g of roast barley - this was a big mistake as it finished up too dark. I forgot to account for fact that boiling wort will concentrate color, so should have trusted recipe. I haven't had time to try this again, but will give it another go soon.

[Fatgodzilla]

Gents, we have tried similiar experiments down here in the colonies. We also wanted a red beer. I'll risk whatever little credibility I have and say "Can't be done .. with normal malt brewing processes". Not trying to be a nark, but the colour you want is beyond the capablities of the grain being used.

You want a "red" brew, buy a bottle of lager and add red food dye. Bright red. The reason you buy a bottle of lager is cos its cheaper to throw away a bottle of lager than a whole batch of home brew.Or sell it to a Liverpool supporter.

Want a decent red ale, all the past threads offer good advice. Red ale means amber red. Want another bright red drink - add Grenadine to lemonade.

Think of the exercise like this - I want a fire red Ferrari. Posting anything on a website won't get me that Ferrari !

But hey, it's your dream.