Recreating Boddingtons

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bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:45 pm

patto1ro wrote:
Clibit wrote:I think they just used Goldings, but from different suppliers. Could be wrong. Probably not crucial as hops were mostly used for bitterness it seems.

The grain bill was very simple, I think enzymatic was American 6-row, used to increase fermentability. It shows up in records from other years.

I'm not convinced Nottingham will work for a Boddies clone, but interested to see how your beer turns out.
Looking at a brewing record from 1989. It has Fuggles, Goldings, Whitbread Goldings Varieties, Styrian Goldings, Northern Brewers and something abbreviated to Bx.
Interesting.

90's Boddies was not as bitter, so quantities may have been dropped, im thinking the 90's brew was mid to low 20's IBU and the 60's brew was 30 to 35IBU.

Billb

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Billb » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:47 pm

Ah, I see! This is getting like Sherlock Holmes!

I'm the same age as you (used to drink it in the Swan in Wilmslow in the late 80s)... so actually that's kind of the era I remember it from.

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:12 pm

Billb wrote:Ah, I see! This is getting like Sherlock Holmes!

I'm the same age as you (used to drink it in the Swan in Wilmslow in the late 80s)... so actually that's kind of the era I remember it from.
My day job has me sat working behind a PC all day (at home also) and I tend to do tons of research and testing, hence me seeing this "Recreating Boddingtons" as a good challenge. I already emailed and had a conversation with Ray and Jess from the blog and gleamed a little more info...so slowly i feel we are now getting there.

The facts are pointing to 2 very different brews however, and 2 very different recipes. Im presently going after the old recipe, more bitter, more in depth grain bill, then once we have that one done my intention was to go after the more modern Boddies, although I feel we are closer to that one already.
My older mates crave the old 70's Boddies, and before im too late I want to brew something that will bring a smile back to their faces. One boy is on 1 lung and while fit has just had another cancer scare, he remembers Boddies very fondly saying it was superb in the 60 and 70's, he was in his 20's i would think when he was supping it.My dad used to sup it also, and while not a heavy drinker he does have fond memories of the brew and how it used to leave you more thirsty with each pint you had ;)

So...we are going to end up with 2 recipes I think, not one ;)

Billb

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Billb » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:37 pm

>it used to leave you more thirsty with each pint you had

Yes, I remember that. I also remember the amazing delicate straw/hay-like back aroma. Almost like fresh wood shavings. Never come across that in any other beer. (This is the 80s recipe of course).

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:58 pm

old boddies2.png
Working on further research and conversations...here is where I am at now, the grainbill was exact % as shown by the blog post, then using candi sugar amber I bumped up the OG. My plan is to actually use golden syrup, as i have a feeling this is what they were using. Remember once you add the sugar the % for the grain go out of wack, however they do not show the sugar in the recipe so im guessing this should be close.

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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by f00b4r » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:28 pm

patto1ro wrote:
Clibit wrote:I think they just used Goldings, but from different suppliers. Could be wrong. Probably not crucial as hops were mostly used for bitterness it seems.

The grain bill was very simple, I think enzymatic was American 6-row, used to increase fermentability. It shows up in records from other years.

I'm not convinced Nottingham will work for a Boddies clone, but interested to see how your beer turns out.
Looking at a brewing record from 1989. It has Fuggles, Goldings, Whitbread Goldings Varieties, Styrian Goldings, Northern Brewers and something abbreviated to Bx.
If that's an ex pat with a penchant for historical beers and mild, would you have access to other brewing records of the beer or any of the original brewers themselves?

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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Hanglow » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:49 pm

Enzymatic/Enzymic malt is an acidulated malt, Adnams and Hook Norton still use it iirc

I am too young to have drunk it when it was good, but it's one of those beers I'd love to go back in time to try at its peak. From those previous B+B posts and reading other snippets from other people who have drunk it, the main points were it was often very well attenuated and assertively bitter with little in the way of late hops

They would also get better utilisation from the hops than we would, I know GW has ranted about tinseth etc before for example :) , so if the original beer was measured at say 35IBUs back in the day, then aiming for a fair bit more than that would be in order I think, even if the amount of hops you use exceeds that in the records. I'd probably go for 45IBUs in beersmith and work from there

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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Clibit » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:16 pm

Patto1ro is Ron Pattinson, i believe, beer historian and writer.

My feeling about Nottingham is that it wouldn't provide a Boddington's kind of flavour, I drank Boddington's regularly from 1978. I hate to contradict someone who helped brew it though, so by all means have a go and let us know.

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:10 am

Muntons Generic Ale yeast is also reported to be Boddies yeast....those little 7g packets could be the gold we are searching for.
Right now I feel the only way to know is brew it with Notty and The Muntons and what ever else we dream up and get people together who know how it used to taste and go from there...issue is most will now be in the late 70's or older.

Enzymatic = acidulated malt, i take it this is used to increase bitterness?

Well 2 mins of research yields it is used to control the PH of the water and adds a sour taste to the beer, so this sour taste probably added to the perceived bitterness also. Problems jump up trying to recreate this as the aquifer Boddies used is strictly controlled and while it stretches under where I live also its incredibly hard to get at the water to ensure when adding the malt etc we get the right flavour. I remember asking Robinsons what the PH was of the water they use (same source pretty much) and all I got was a stern face and no answer ...2 brewery tours yielded no answers ;)

So, the question now is simple, does anyone know the water Boiddies used so it could be recreated?

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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Hanglow » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:18 am

It's used to get the mash ph where the brewer wants it

You won't notice a lactic taste from that little, I think the threshold is more like 6% or possibly even more, assuming it's similar to the german stuff

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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Clibit » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:25 am

The Boddingtons strain no longer exists. The best we can do is find the closest match. The best I've done was with Mauribrew Ale yeast, but I've never tried a liquid yeast cos I can't see one that fits the bill. I would say you need very high attenuation and light esters. Muntons standard yeast has low attenuation. Not many British yeasts you can buy will attenuate enough, if any. US05/WLP001 might be a decent bet, on the basis of attenuation, but would lack any English character. Mauribrew is high attenuation and light esters, do try it. I made a very decent Boddies-like beer with it, by accident. Thwaites yeast may be worth a try too, it can attenuate to about 77%, so mash low and long and you may get there. I think Brewlab Lancashire 1 is Thwaites.

I saw a set of Bodds brewing records that showed American 6 row in small quantities, it is high in diastatic power, which is why I thought it might be the enzymatic malt. Maybe. High in enzymes.

I drank Bodds in 1978 and thereafter, and I'm only 55. :)

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:40 am

Hanglow wrote:It's used to get the mash ph where the brewer wants it

You won't notice a lactic taste from that little, I think the threshold is more like 6% or possibly even more, assuming it's similar to the german stuff
Well Stocky home brew have acid malt however I can't see the point of using it to adjust PH when I already treat to get around 5.4 in the mash if it adds no taste. I think just going higher on IBU is what is needed, I will probably start at 30IBU or close and work up if its not quite right, as mentioned above even over 40 may be in order here.

Back to yeast, earlier conversations today added invert sugar to the mix, could this be the key to the higher attenuation? The recipe I posted early needs AA around 77% which is doable, I have seen over 80% with coopers ale yeast so there has to be hope!

I have a brew fermenting right now which is a stronger (higher OG) version of 90's boddies, it has 200g of honey added to see if this helps the attenuation, yeast is Notty and the goal is to see if it will hit 1.008 or lower. Never thought of using golden syrup, wished I had done now, either way its a worthy experiment.

Clibit, 2hr mash at 64C sound better?

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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Clibit » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:41 am

bigtoe wrote: Clibit, 2hr mash at 64C sound better?
Yes, I would say so.

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:36 am

Clibit wrote:
bigtoe wrote: Clibit, 2hr mash at 64C sound better?
Yes, I would say so.
oki doki, easy enough to do on the GF.

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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by BrannigansLove » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:16 am

Clibit wrote:The Boddingtons strain no longer exists. The best we can do is find the closest match. The best I've done was with Mauribrew Ale yeast, but I've never tried a liquid yeast cos I can't see one that fits the bill. I would say you need very high attenuation and light esters. Muntons standard yeast has low attenuation. Not many British yeasts you can buy will attenuate enough, if any. US05/WLP001 might be a decent bet, on the basis of attenuation, but would lack any English character. Mauribrew is high attenuation and light esters, do try it. I made a very decent Boddies-like beer with it, by accident. Thwaites yeast may be worth a try too, it can attenuate to about 77%, so mash low and long and you may get there. I think Brewlab Lancashire 1 is Thwaites.

I saw a set of Bodds brewing records that showed American 6 row in small quantities, it is high in diastatic power, which is why I thought it might be the enzymatic malt. Maybe. High in enzymes.

I drank Bodds in 1978 and thereafter, and I'm only 55. :)
I thought enzymatic would be 6 row too, I can't see why you would name acid malt as enzymatic.

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