Read an 'attempt' at Raspberry beer - what'd you reckon?

[Hodda]

The missus keeps banging on about Bacchus Framboise - now I don't know a lot but I do know that this is a lambic and its something I don't wish to look into. However, ages ago a kind soul gave me a book by Kevin Forbes - Im not here to rate it but Ive heard that some the recipes arent quite right.

Anyway it has a recipe for 'an attempt' at rasberry beer for 15L @5.5%

1.5Kg crytsal malt
225g dextrine malt
1.35 DME light
340 sugar
1kg rasberries
28g Goldings
Belgian Ale yeast

Basically you steep the malt, add DME and do a 40 min boil with the hops, then you add the sugar and raspberries and boil for another 10 mins. Chill and strain to fermentor and pitch and leave for 7 days.

Now in terms of schedule and bill, how do you think this would turn out - essentially as long as it is slightly rasberry tasting and a little less beery than beer she might have it.
Any ideas how it might turn out?

[Rookie]

If you put the raspberries in the boil you'll set the pectin and have a hazy beer, which is no problem if that's what you're after. Also having the raspberries in during primary fermentation will severely reduce their taste and aroma.
Let it ferment for a week or two, then add the raspberries and let it go for another week.

[jmc]

If you put the raspberries in the boil you'll set the pectin and have a hazy beer, which is no problem if that's what you're after. Also having the raspberries in during primary fermentation will severely reduce their taste and aroma.
Let it ferment for a week or two, then add the raspberries and let it go for another week.

+1 to adding as late as possible. Raspberry flavour likely to get blown away by the fermentation.

Personally I think the amount of raspberries in the recipe is way too low. 1 kg in 15L will give you colour and some acidity but not a lot of flavour.
I think you need about 1kg per gallon to get anywhere near flavour of Belgian fruit lambics.

Only fruit I've used that works less than that are Apricots which are great in a Saison or a Lambic at about 500g per 5L

[scuppeteer]

Bit of a strange recipe you've found.

If you want a true ale, leave out the hops. I made a Blackberry ale last year and it turned out quite good. Let the primary fermentation finish then add the fruit. The fructose in the raspberries will kick it off again so be prepared for a mess, should only be 2 or 3 more days before it stops again. It can finish quite dry but also refreshing. I put 4.5kg of fresh fruit in 23l.

[YeastFace Brew Co.]

The base beer for the Bacchus is an oud bruin, and not a particularly sour one.

Have you considered a raspberry witbier?

Wheat DME, steep some flaked wheat to help contribute some haze. Small bittering addition. Orange peel and coriander (I think I'd leave out the coriander myself as you want raspberry to be the star). Witbier yeast (only used Brewferm Blanche which I was happy with). Then add a load of raspberries when fermentation starts to slow down.

[orlando]

I've made an AG version of this a few times, big fan of the Bacchus version. I agree with what has been posted so far, I too have left out hops without detriment but a small amount to help with the bugs is OK. Certainly the key is more is more and adding 5k of raspberries (I blitzed mine by the way) and added once fermentation is effectively over gives you the best colour and flavour. The point Scups makes about the fructose kicking it off again is very important as it will dry out the beer and add some acidity, if she prefers a sweeter beer then use some lactose to get it to balance. Final tip and one I haven't tried yet is how to get sourness in without using a Belgian yeast, that might add phenols and banana like flavours, to be avoided in my view, is to mash some pale malt overnight, this is almost guaranteed to wake up the lacto bacillus clinging to every crumb and give you the sour note you are looking for.

[jmc]

I've made an AG version of this a few times, big fan of the Bacchus version. I agree with what has been posted so far, I too have left out hops without detriment but a small amount to help with the bugs is OK. Certainly the key is more is more and adding 5k of raspberries (I blitzed mine by the way) and added once fermentation is effectively over gives you the best colour and flavour. The point Scups makes about the fructose kicking it off again is very important as it will dry out the beer and add some acidity, if she prefers a sweeter beer then use some lactose to get it to balance. Final tip and one I haven't tried yet is how to get sourness in without using a Belgian yeast, that might add phenols and banana like flavours, to be avoided in my view, is to mash some pale malt overnight, this is almost guaranteed to wake up the lacto bacillus clinging to every crumb and give you the sour note you are looking for.

Good call about addition of sour lacto-mash.

Add it pre-boil if you just want the lactic acid it has or post boil if you want the bugs to do their work on the whole brew, which is quite a gamble.

[Hodda]

Thanks for the comments - I think I have a plan but one question in terms of adding the raspberries after the primary ferment - what is the best way to sterilise them - if I boil them I take it I would still get pectin haze?

Ideas?

[millmaster]

I put my 2.5kg raspberries in about a gallon of water with 4 crushed campden tablets for 24hrs. Something of an excess I suspect but my berries were from the allotment and I figured too many campden tablets were better than too few. Some of the berries did look bleached white. Drained off most of the water, blitzed the berries and in they went after about four days of fermentation. Fermentation took off again, but ended up stable at 1.006 when I bottled, no obvious off tastes at the point of bottling, which was about a week ago. Bottled 23 litres total

[Hodda]

I put my 2.5kg raspberries in about a gallon of water with 4 crushed campden tablets for 24hrs. Something of an excess I suspect but my berries were from the allotment and I figured too many campden tablets were better than too few. Some of the berries did look bleached white. Drained off most of the water, blitzed the berries and in they went after about four days of fermentation. Fermentation took off again, but ended up stable at 1.006 when I bottled, no obvious off tastes at the point of bottling, which was about a week ago. Bottled 23 litres total

Thats an Idea, Id not thought of that! Can I ask how you did the base brew?

[orlando]

I wouldn't do anything, every time I have done this I have just used starsan on the bowls and liquidiser but avoided Camden tablets and relied on low pH, hops and alcohol to inhibit bugs, always worked. Short of using essence and colouring it is the best way of preserving flavour and colour.

[millmaster]

Hodda, Base brew 2.5kg pale malt, 2.5kg wheat malt, 75min mash at 64C 1.5oz mixed Tettnang, Hallatauer Mittelfruh, Hallatauer Heersbrucke ( about 4% AA on avaerage ) all in for the whole 90min boil. Fermented about 4 days at 22C using recovered Chimay yeast, then the berries in.

Orlando, I wasnt prepared to take the risk of not at least trying to sterilise the fruit, even at the price of losing flavour. Its fresh out the allotment and no doubt covered in wild mould yeast and bacteria since I try to garden organically so I dont use the sprays that commercial fruit growers may. ( and I'm not a fan of "sour" beers )

[orlando]

Orlando, I wasnt prepared to take the risk of not at least trying to sterilise the fruit, even at the price of losing flavour. Its fresh out the allotment and no doubt covered in wild mould yeast and bacteria since I try to garden organically so I dont use the sprays that commercial fruit growers may. ( and I'm not a fan of "sour" beers )

Mine were the same, straight from the garden, no treatment, frozen blitzed and shoved in the fermented out brew. No problem.



Picture of the beer doesn't do the colour of it justice, it was magnificent.

[millmaster]

I hope mine comes out as nicely. I'll know in a couple of weeks !