Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Try some of these great recipes out, or share your favourite brew with other forumees!
User avatar
Fr_Marc
Tippler
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:09 am

Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Fr_Marc » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:18 am

Good morning Forum!

As my first try at an AG brew is happily fermenting in it's vessel, I am already thinking about my next brew day. I want to try my hands on a T.E.A. clone, a beer I really enjoyed while travelling Surrey. Searching this forum, I found out that some homebrewers have brewed a T.E.A. clone in the past. While there are some documentations of brewdays and recipe discussions out there, I did not find posts about how the brews turned out and if they were anywhere near the original stuff. I therefore don't know which recipy I should follow. Thence I want to ask for your help in preparing my brew.

Please allow me to list the recipes for Hog's Back T.E.A. clones I found on the internet and then aks my questions.

______________________________________________

A) Normans Real Ale Almanac:

25 litre batch OG 1044 ABV 4.2%

PIPKIN PALE MALT 4303 gms
CRYSTAL MALT 349 gms

HOPS boil time 90 minutes

FUGGLES 35 gms
GOLDINGS 33 gms

Add 10 gms Goldings last 15 minutes.

Yeast of your choice
______________________________________________

B) Grainfather Community Recipe:

23 litre batch OG 1.042 ABV 4.11%

MARRIS OTTER MALT 4300 gms
CARAMEL/Crystal MALT 30L 500gms

HOPS boil time 60 Minutes

FUGGLES 45 gms.

Add another 45gms Fuggles last 10 Minutes.

Yeast: Wyeast London ESB Ale 1968
______________________________________________

C) Homebrewtalk Forum:

5.5 gallon batch OG 1.043 ABV 4.2%

9 lbs Maris Otter
0.75 lbs Crystal 60
1 oz Fuggles @ 60
1 oz Goldings @ 60
0.5 oz Goldings @ 10

Yeast: Wyeast London ESB Ale 1968
______________________________________________

D)Bramswell's Recipe from this post: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=19411&p=222919&hil ... ea#p222919

4.30 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 92.5 %
0.35 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (140.0 EBC) Grain 7.5 %
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (90 min) Hops 18.5 IBU
25.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (90 min) Hops 13.9 IBU
8.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
1.21 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

mash @ 67.8'c for 90 mins
______________________________________________

My basic questions are the following:

1. Which recipe would you suggest following?

2. All of these recipes more or less follow a classic pale ale grainbill. When entered into a brewing software, non of the recipes delivers the right colour profile for T.E.A. ("looks like cooper"). The recipes end up with ~10-12 EBC, while T.E.A. should be somwhere around 20-22, I guess. How should I address this? Adding a small amount of Black Malt (which I happen to have at hand)? Go for a darker Caramel/Crystal Malt than 60L or 80L?

3. Which Yeast would you recommend for the brew? The Hog's Back brewery seems to use the Hook Norton strain and seem to be giving away yeast for a small donation. Unfortunately, this is not an option for me as I am living and brewing in Germany. Can someone recommend a commercial available yeast that is similar to Hook Norton/ Hog's Back yeast?

4. Has anyone brewed a T.E.A. clone that was really close to the original regarding colour, aroma and taste and is willing to share the recipe/process with us?

The last questions is probabely the most important and most expedient one.

I am looking forward to your answers, hints and tips. Thank you for your help!

Marc

bryanferry
Piss Artist
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:25 am

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by bryanferry » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:17 pm

Hey Marc, I recently tried to make something similar to T.E.A. From my notes it was basically recipe B but I used up some spare dark crystal (350g) and some molasses to get the colour. I also reduced the early fuggles to 35g. It came out pretty close in colour and smell but the taste was different, probably due to the yeast. It was a tasty batch on its own terms and didnt hang around long in the keg.

To my mind the problem with clone brewing is that even with all the ingredients from the brewery its difficult to get it right. To save a madness spiral I instead try to take inspiration from beers I've enjoyed and try to go for the style.
Grainfather conical Standard bitter
Corny Keg 1 - Silver 'sprite' hard seltzer
Corny Keg 2 - Purple Old ale
Corny Keg 3 - Copper
Demi Johns

User avatar
Fr_Marc
Tippler
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:09 am

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Fr_Marc » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:59 pm

Dear Bryanferry, thank you for your answer. I posted my questions on three different homebrewing forums and you are the first one to answer.

Did you add the dark crystal and molasses in addition to the Caramel/Crystal 30L mentioned in the recipe or instead of it? Also, do you remember how much molasses you used?

As I have no need for (yet another) madness spiral, I am not intending to archieve an exact clone. My sole aim is to produce something similar to Hog's Back T.E.A., which I really enjoyed while in England. So, basically we are following the same aproach.

Again, thanks for your help and cheers!

User avatar
orlando
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7158
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:22 pm
Location: North Norfolk: Nearest breweries All Day Brewery, Salle. Panther, Reepham. Yetman's, Holt

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by orlando » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:50 pm

Fr_Marc wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:59 pm
I am not intending to achieve an exact clone. My sole aim is to produce something similar to Hog's Back T.E.A.,
That is a realistic approach.

The chances of a true clone are remote, because I believe, and it is only a belief, that scale is a factor. But, the most important reason is that without the brewery yeast you have no chance. I managed to snaffle some yeast on a Hook Norton brewery tour. It's like a wild animal compared to the anaemic wet yeasts available to us. It made some lovely Beer but was still not quite the same.

Now, you didn't want to hear that, but as you are just wanting to make a good example of that style of Beer that's OK. Start with the recipe you like the look of. Stick to best practice, pitch plenty of healthy yeast and control temperature during fermentation and then see where you are. It's then just a question of changing one thing, if you're not happy, to slowly fine tune your efforts until you're happy.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning: Hunter (Tally Ho Clone) till December
Drinking: Deeply Dippy, She's American (APA), Southwold Again, Promised You A Miracle, He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (Wee Heavy)

Up Next: Pucker Up Buttercup (Sour Beer)
Planning: Summer drinking Beer

User avatar
Fr_Marc
Tippler
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:09 am

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Fr_Marc » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:28 pm

orlando wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:50 pm
Start with the recipe you like the look of. Stick to best practice, pitch plenty of healthy yeast and control temperature during fermentation and then see where you are. It's then just a question of changing one thing, if you're not happy, to slowly fine tune your efforts until you're happy.
Thank you, sir. I will try to do this. I will start with recipe "B", adjusted a little bit following bryanferry's suggestions and see how it will turn out. Like an old fellow used to say to me: "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!"

NB: I would still be interested to know if substituting WhiteLabs WLP007 "Dry English Ale" yeast for the Hook Norton yeast (as someone suggested) is the right direction or totally off...

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Jocky » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:46 pm

TEA was an early favourite ale of mine. The wife keeps asking me to make something like it.

Most of those recipes aren’t too far apart aside from some late hopping and the yeast choice. I’d probably go for something like B/C myself.

Yeast choice is critical. Honestly the best thing would be to get some from the brewery or culture some up from a bottle conditioned bottle. In the absence of that, I’d pick a good wet yeast. 1968 ESB is ok, but mash low to achieve attenuation.

I’d consider 1275 Thames Valley yeast personally. Whatever you choose, don’t use S-04. It’s just not very nice in my opinion.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

User avatar
orlando
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7158
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:22 pm
Location: North Norfolk: Nearest breweries All Day Brewery, Salle. Panther, Reepham. Yetman's, Holt

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by orlando » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:36 pm

Fr_Marc wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:28 pm
NB: I would still be interested to know if substituting WhiteLabs WLP007 "Dry English Ale" yeast for the Hook Norton yeast (as someone suggested) is the right direction or totally off...
If you can get it, all day long.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning: Hunter (Tally Ho Clone) till December
Drinking: Deeply Dippy, She's American (APA), Southwold Again, Promised You A Miracle, He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (Wee Heavy)

Up Next: Pucker Up Buttercup (Sour Beer)
Planning: Summer drinking Beer

User avatar
Fr_Marc
Tippler
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:09 am

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Fr_Marc » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:36 am

I am not sure if I got my English mixed up there. What I wanted to ask is this:

Since I cannot get my hands on the Hook Norton yeast, someone suggested to use WhiteLabs „Dry English Ale“ instead. Is that a sound suggestion leading in the right direction?

User avatar
orlando
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7158
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:22 pm
Location: North Norfolk: Nearest breweries All Day Brewery, Salle. Panther, Reepham. Yetman's, Holt

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by orlando » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:50 am

Fr_Marc wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:36 am
I am not sure if I got my English mixed up there. What I wanted to ask is this:

Since I cannot get my hands on the Hook Norton yeast, someone suggested to use WhiteLabs „Dry English Ale“ instead. Is that a sound suggestion leading in the right direction?
It's worth trying. The dried yeast that would also attenuate well is Nottingham, if that is easier to get. If your happy with the recipe then changing the yeast each time until you find the one you think is closest to your goal.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning: Hunter (Tally Ho Clone) till December
Drinking: Deeply Dippy, She's American (APA), Southwold Again, Promised You A Miracle, He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (Wee Heavy)

Up Next: Pucker Up Buttercup (Sour Beer)
Planning: Summer drinking Beer

Madbrewer
Tippler
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:03 pm

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Madbrewer » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:22 pm

Looking back through my records I seem to remember Andy (one of the moderators on here) and myself doing a load of TEA batches to see who could come up with something close to TEA. We are both lucky enough to live close enough to the brewery to get the actual yeast. I rated the following recipe as 8.5/10 and as I don't particularly like TEA it must have been related to closeness as opposed to marks out of ten for a great beer. However this was 10+ years ago.

4300g pale, 350g Crystal, Fuggle 25g (90 mins) 30g Golding (90) & 8g Golding (10) didn't record the AA's doh!
23 litre batch

Thoughts on yeast choice:

HN never attenuated brilliantly so you probably want a lazy and buttery yeast maybe Lalbrew's London would be close or even White Labs WLP005 British Ale Yeast?

not sure if that helps or not really ...

Phil

User avatar
Fr_Marc
Tippler
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:09 am

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Fr_Marc » Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:19 pm

Dear Phil, tanks for the input. Can you give me a hint on which type of Crystal malt you used back then? Looking at your recipe I guess that it must have been a rather dark variety in order to produce a cooper coloured beer like TEA...
I will also have a look at your yeast suggestions. Thanks a lot! Marc

Madbrewer
Tippler
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:03 pm

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Madbrewer » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:38 am

Most likely it would have been this one:-

https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/ac ... illed.html

57-66 lovibond.

Hope that helps ...

User avatar
Fr_Marc
Tippler
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:09 am

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Fr_Marc » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:45 pm

Thanks, Phil. That helps a lot.

McMullan
Under the Table
Posts: 1385
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:48 pm
Location: Here

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by McMullan » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:05 pm

I'd avoid WLP005 and WLP007. Good performers, especially WLP007, but they both lack character, imo. In terms of 'lazy' and 'buttery' I'd have to recommend WY1187 as something much better and, more importantly, accessible.

User avatar
Fr_Marc
Tippler
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:09 am

Re: Hog's Back T.E.A. Clone - Beginner's Questions

Post by Fr_Marc » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:51 pm

WY1187 is said to be a „high maintenance yeast“, if I understand correctly. Since the TEA clone will be my second ever all grain brew, I am not sure if I am ready for it, unfortunately.

Post Reply