25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
- Kev888
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25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Well I finally got around to making my boiler this weekend, and as many of the ideas came from threads and advice on the JBK forum thought I'd let you all see the results. Its based around an ex-food industry tank I got some time ago from George Beck - like these only mine is 25 gallon. Its a nice tank and it was a big decision to go with electric heating, because that involves cutting the tank. However, I may want to boil in the house so electricity seemed better, plus after all the faffing about with Co2 suppliers for my cornies I like the idea of just plugging it in and avoiding more gas issues.
There's been some debate recently as to the types of elements to use, and I'm not wanting to start a parallel debate here. But after trying the jugs elements and backer-type kettle elements in the past my own personal preference these days is for immersion heaters, and so thats what I used. But my tank is a thick stainless jobby, so fitting was going to be interesting - I'd considered soft soldering it in this thread but been put off by the cost and difficulty of getting the flux. Welding would probably have been best, but I don't have the kit to weld stainless and wanted to do it myself. So, I decided to go with a mechanical approach - this doesn't harm the tank (aside from the hole thats needed anyway) so a stainless flange could always be welded on at a later date if I wanted.
First off I hammered a flat-ish area in the tank with a lump hammer and some sacrificial wood to prevent denting the surface - the wall is over 2mm thick and made quite a noise even though I was sitting on it at the time. I then cut a 64mm hole in it with a cobalt holesaw then spent a bit of time prying out/knocking in any small undulations in the flatness around the hole's rim. Initially I tried to use a 2 1/4" flange as a back nut, but it soon became clear that wasn't going to work - no way I could get enough leverage on it to seal against imperfectly flat walls that thick. So I got a mechanical flange instead and opened out the hole to the required 65mm with a half round file:
And here is the mechanical flange fitted - it needed some very large grips to seal properly:
And here is the 11" immersion fitted - its 3kw at 240v or 2.7kw at 230v. I also put the tap on (a 3/4" stainless fleabay bargain) so that I could test the seal:
The key issue of this flange over a welded/soldered one is that it has an internal part to it, which doesn't let all immersion elements fit due to the way they're bent over in a largish radius at the end, and which would make cleaning harder. I got over this by trying elements at a local plumbing retailer, and I squeezed some LS-X in behind it and around the threads before tightening the flange - which I had to do quite quickly as this seems to cure faster than normal silicone:
Next up was insulation - and as I'm hoping for a rolling boil in up to 25 gallons with one element this had to be good. I'd initially decided on armaflex, although the cost was a little hair-raising, a 1" mat has got a thermal resistance equivalent to several inches of rockwool though. However, I'd discovered that good quality closed-cell sleeping mats were similar in performance but were also not cheap so it seemed I may as well go for armaflex. Then I found that go outdoors had a two-for £8 in store offer on these mats - I couldn't find any thermal ratings but they seemed to be the same material as the expensive ones I'd seen which had the decent thermal ratings, and they did at least claim 'very high' thermal performance. When I discovered that the armaflex only came in awkward/inefficient sizes for my needs I decided to risk the mats. I decided to go for 24mm, or three layers, which took five mats in total (though I reduced it to one layer around the handle and left a 20mm gap around the element - didn't want anything overheating/melting):
I had purposely not cut the top off the tank so that it could be insulated almost all around, and I've also got plans for making a steam extraction pipe so leaving the top on would mean I didn't need to make a hood. This left a 6" hole so i may regret it when it comes to emptying hops/trub, but at least I can reach the bottom through it so it seemed worth a try. I insulated the top in the same way as the sides, and covered everything with that radiator foil bubble wrap stuff to make it wipe-clean (and shiny ). Mostly this was an old roll from wickes that I had left over but I had to buy some more for the top, and the foil on this was thinner, so i may have to cover it in more foil tape to make it more robust.
Edit: Not only was the newer roll's foil thinner, but it also lost its shine after contact with steam/water and looked patchy and messy; the old foil roll used on the sides was much superior. So I am going to have to cover the top with more foil tape as I thought:
The brass doofa on top is a 3/4" male thread for my inlet; I've caused so many floods by loose pipes flopping out that I decided to put proper connectors on. I also decided to standardise my pipe fittings for the same size everywhere, and settled on 3/4" when I found how long it takes to drain 25 gallons through 15mm. I'm going to have a silicone hose dip tube inside this inlet to stop too much foaming when filling.
That left the underneath. Fortunately the tank sits on a rim (the base is angled down towards the outlet), so I could just fill this. I had some 1" celotex/kingspan type foam left over so friction fit that in the recess, and taped around the edge with more foil tape. Its maybe not the most robust approach having the tape over the ring it sits on, but the tank is so heavy I'm not intending to routinely move it about - think I may need a wet and dry vacuum cleaner or something to suck out the hops..
EDIT: Plan B - the foil tape wasn't robust enough for the tank to sit on; sliding/positioning the tank tore it. So I just taped the celotex to the inside if the bottom rim, rather than taping completely over it.
Then for the hop-stopper. As its quite a big tank I decided on a bigger one than I've used before, so went with the stainless braid from a 900mm hose - it says not for drinking water but I think that refers to the rubber inside that I discarded - can't see that it would be the stainless braid anyway. After having plated hose clips rust on me before, I used some stainless ones this time. By luck, I discovered that a bit of silicone tube I had fitted snugly in the outlet pipe, so I used that to connect the hop stopper:
So thats it. Annoyingly whilst I did get some hot condition flex I didn't get a plug as I assumed I already had one, typically though none of the ones I have look up to much and this isn't the right application for that sort of thing. Being bank hols I'm going to have to wait now before I can test it. I already have a HLT made from a hot water cylinder (which I may now lag with the same foil roll just for aesthetics) so next it'll be the MT - I have a smaller tank ready for that and yet more sleeping mats, but currently am waiting for my perforated stainless to arrive for its false bottom.
Cheers
Kev
There's been some debate recently as to the types of elements to use, and I'm not wanting to start a parallel debate here. But after trying the jugs elements and backer-type kettle elements in the past my own personal preference these days is for immersion heaters, and so thats what I used. But my tank is a thick stainless jobby, so fitting was going to be interesting - I'd considered soft soldering it in this thread but been put off by the cost and difficulty of getting the flux. Welding would probably have been best, but I don't have the kit to weld stainless and wanted to do it myself. So, I decided to go with a mechanical approach - this doesn't harm the tank (aside from the hole thats needed anyway) so a stainless flange could always be welded on at a later date if I wanted.
First off I hammered a flat-ish area in the tank with a lump hammer and some sacrificial wood to prevent denting the surface - the wall is over 2mm thick and made quite a noise even though I was sitting on it at the time. I then cut a 64mm hole in it with a cobalt holesaw then spent a bit of time prying out/knocking in any small undulations in the flatness around the hole's rim. Initially I tried to use a 2 1/4" flange as a back nut, but it soon became clear that wasn't going to work - no way I could get enough leverage on it to seal against imperfectly flat walls that thick. So I got a mechanical flange instead and opened out the hole to the required 65mm with a half round file:
And here is the mechanical flange fitted - it needed some very large grips to seal properly:
And here is the 11" immersion fitted - its 3kw at 240v or 2.7kw at 230v. I also put the tap on (a 3/4" stainless fleabay bargain) so that I could test the seal:
The key issue of this flange over a welded/soldered one is that it has an internal part to it, which doesn't let all immersion elements fit due to the way they're bent over in a largish radius at the end, and which would make cleaning harder. I got over this by trying elements at a local plumbing retailer, and I squeezed some LS-X in behind it and around the threads before tightening the flange - which I had to do quite quickly as this seems to cure faster than normal silicone:
Next up was insulation - and as I'm hoping for a rolling boil in up to 25 gallons with one element this had to be good. I'd initially decided on armaflex, although the cost was a little hair-raising, a 1" mat has got a thermal resistance equivalent to several inches of rockwool though. However, I'd discovered that good quality closed-cell sleeping mats were similar in performance but were also not cheap so it seemed I may as well go for armaflex. Then I found that go outdoors had a two-for £8 in store offer on these mats - I couldn't find any thermal ratings but they seemed to be the same material as the expensive ones I'd seen which had the decent thermal ratings, and they did at least claim 'very high' thermal performance. When I discovered that the armaflex only came in awkward/inefficient sizes for my needs I decided to risk the mats. I decided to go for 24mm, or three layers, which took five mats in total (though I reduced it to one layer around the handle and left a 20mm gap around the element - didn't want anything overheating/melting):
I had purposely not cut the top off the tank so that it could be insulated almost all around, and I've also got plans for making a steam extraction pipe so leaving the top on would mean I didn't need to make a hood. This left a 6" hole so i may regret it when it comes to emptying hops/trub, but at least I can reach the bottom through it so it seemed worth a try. I insulated the top in the same way as the sides, and covered everything with that radiator foil bubble wrap stuff to make it wipe-clean (and shiny ). Mostly this was an old roll from wickes that I had left over but I had to buy some more for the top, and the foil on this was thinner, so i may have to cover it in more foil tape to make it more robust.
Edit: Not only was the newer roll's foil thinner, but it also lost its shine after contact with steam/water and looked patchy and messy; the old foil roll used on the sides was much superior. So I am going to have to cover the top with more foil tape as I thought:
The brass doofa on top is a 3/4" male thread for my inlet; I've caused so many floods by loose pipes flopping out that I decided to put proper connectors on. I also decided to standardise my pipe fittings for the same size everywhere, and settled on 3/4" when I found how long it takes to drain 25 gallons through 15mm. I'm going to have a silicone hose dip tube inside this inlet to stop too much foaming when filling.
That left the underneath. Fortunately the tank sits on a rim (the base is angled down towards the outlet), so I could just fill this. I had some 1" celotex/kingspan type foam left over so friction fit that in the recess, and taped around the edge with more foil tape. Its maybe not the most robust approach having the tape over the ring it sits on, but the tank is so heavy I'm not intending to routinely move it about - think I may need a wet and dry vacuum cleaner or something to suck out the hops..
EDIT: Plan B - the foil tape wasn't robust enough for the tank to sit on; sliding/positioning the tank tore it. So I just taped the celotex to the inside if the bottom rim, rather than taping completely over it.
Then for the hop-stopper. As its quite a big tank I decided on a bigger one than I've used before, so went with the stainless braid from a 900mm hose - it says not for drinking water but I think that refers to the rubber inside that I discarded - can't see that it would be the stainless braid anyway. After having plated hose clips rust on me before, I used some stainless ones this time. By luck, I discovered that a bit of silicone tube I had fitted snugly in the outlet pipe, so I used that to connect the hop stopper:
So thats it. Annoyingly whilst I did get some hot condition flex I didn't get a plug as I assumed I already had one, typically though none of the ones I have look up to much and this isn't the right application for that sort of thing. Being bank hols I'm going to have to wait now before I can test it. I already have a HLT made from a hot water cylinder (which I may now lag with the same foil roll just for aesthetics) so next it'll be the MT - I have a smaller tank ready for that and yet more sleeping mats, but currently am waiting for my perforated stainless to arrive for its false bottom.
Cheers
Kev
Last edited by Kev888 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kev
Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
This annoys the hell out of me! I spend ages trying to build a good boiler and it turns out like a 10 year olds school project. You decide to build one and within 25 mins youve got a commercial grade boiler!
- Gricey
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Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Droooooooooool.
Bad Panda Brewery
Fermenting: FV1: AG#18 English IPA FV2: AG#19 Summer Dunkelweizen
Conditioning: AG#16 Chimay Reddish, AG#17 Amarillo Brillo
Maturing: AG#05 B.O.R.I.S.: Bricksh*tter Oatmeal Russian Imperial Stout - ready 01/10/11, AG#07 Monkey Shot! IAPA - ready 16/06/11 maybe
Drinking: AG#11, AG#14, AG#15
Planning: AG#20 Summer Hefeweisen, AG#21 Saison Brettre, AG#22 Simcoe Poisoning Red IPA, AG#23 Oatmeal Stout
Fermenting: FV1: AG#18 English IPA FV2: AG#19 Summer Dunkelweizen
Conditioning: AG#16 Chimay Reddish, AG#17 Amarillo Brillo
Maturing: AG#05 B.O.R.I.S.: Bricksh*tter Oatmeal Russian Imperial Stout - ready 01/10/11, AG#07 Monkey Shot! IAPA - ready 16/06/11 maybe
Drinking: AG#11, AG#14, AG#15
Planning: AG#20 Summer Hefeweisen, AG#21 Saison Brettre, AG#22 Simcoe Poisoning Red IPA, AG#23 Oatmeal Stout
- Kev888
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Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Ha! Don't worry I'm still very proud of my cylinder HLT and thats hardly any different, I think its just that this is a ready-made stainless tank that makes it look nice - I'm sadly not responsible for that, I just paid the £price to get it before I realised how little a copper cylinder could be got for. In actual fact there was more work in converting the cylinder, though admittedly the copper was easier to work with than stainless.bigdave wrote:This annoys the hell out of me! I spend ages trying to build a good boiler and it turns out like a 10 year olds school project. You decide to build one and within 25 mins youve got a commercial grade boiler!
Cheers
kev
Kev
Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Great build looks the dogs bits , only thing i would worry about is getting hops out and cleaning it out after the boil,I myself looked at using the same type of 3kw element but was worried that my shed brew-house electrics would blow fuses hope yours are up to it.
- Kev888
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Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Thanks! Yes the cleaning is something that remains to be seen. I'm sure it'll be possible; could blast them out with a hose if necessary and I can reach to scrub if required - its just a matter of how annoying it is in practice really.dynamic dave wrote:Great build looks the dogs bits , only thing i would worry about is getting hops out and cleaning it out after the boil,I myself looked at using the same type of 3kw element but was worried that my shed brew-house electrics would blow fuses hope yours are up to it.
Yes, the electrics are an issue; its only the one element so load on the radial circuit should be okay, but on full capacity batches it'll need to run for hours. My small burco is just as powerful though, and seemed okay except that the plug gets hot after a while. Think I'll be getting some 16a commando plugs before I try to reach a full capacity boil in this.
Cheers
kev
Kev
Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
That looks shit hot Kev, i may have to rethink my vessels now,as they are the same design as yours and bought off the very same George Beck,
i cut the lids off mine as i had to get the false bottoms in to the mash tun and boiler, but the false bottom with the SS mesh in the boiler isn`t
doing its job as it seems to move with the hot water trapped between it and the bottom, as mine is heated from underneath with a gas burner, so
i was thinking of doing something like yours.
i cut the lids off mine as i had to get the false bottoms in to the mash tun and boiler, but the false bottom with the SS mesh in the boiler isn`t
doing its job as it seems to move with the hot water trapped between it and the bottom, as mine is heated from underneath with a gas burner, so
i was thinking of doing something like yours.
- Kev888
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Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Thanks! Yes, it was seeing your thread that put me onto George - though my boiler is far smaller than yours its the same sort of design; heavy duty jobs aren't they? Its interesting what you say about the false bottom rising; I was just looking at my braid and wondering if something like that may happen; the end that is fitted into the drain pipe should be okay but the other end is a bit unrestrained. Perhaps it won't matter with the braid though, if its loose enough to float about during the boil maybe it'll be equally free to settle back down again before draining starts.haz66 wrote:That looks BS hot Kev, i may have to rethink my vessels now,as they are the same design as yours and bought off the very same George Beck,
i cut the lids off mine as i had to get the false bottoms in to the mash tun and boiler, but the false bottom with the SS mesh in the boiler isn`t
doing its job as it seems to move with the hot water trapped between it and the bottom, as mine is heated from underneath with a gas burner, so
i was thinking of doing something like yours.
I'm sure time will tell, though I need to make my MT before I find out. Thats a similar tank too, though smaller than my boiler and miniscule compared to yours, but even so i already cut the top off that; partly to get the false bottom in and partly because there's no way i want to be digging grain out through a 6" hole. I guess if it floats I may just look for something heavy to stick on it..
Cheers
kev
Kev
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Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Looks the part, what are the tank dimensions, is it easy enough to reach the bottom?
A future Idea would be to Half remove the Top and hinge it in the middle so the half with the access hole just lifts up for cleaning etc (A bit of careful Jig sawing maybe)
A future Idea would be to Half remove the Top and hinge it in the middle so the half with the access hole just lifts up for cleaning etc (A bit of careful Jig sawing maybe)
Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
If youre concerned about the hop filter bobbling about, why not add some small sections of copper pipe inside it to add some weight?
- Kev888
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Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Thanks all!
The tank is about 700mm high by 550 diameter, with a 150mm hole in the top. Its just the right size to let me reach the bottom, although it takes a little effort to get to the very furthest corner - it was being able to reach which tempted me to try leaving the top on really. And aside from insulation and steam control it seemed a shame (and a bit un-reversible) to grind off the top such a well made tank. But I definately wouldn't have left it on if it was even a few inches taller or being used for an MT like Haz is doing. I guess time will tell really - if necessary it would be easy enough to grind some or all of the top off..
Thanks for the idea of copper inserts Dave. I'd thought that I could weight it down but hadn't considered doing it from inside, that could be neat. Initially I'm going to see what happen though; the braid has a reasonable weight compared to its surface area and is quite floppy - it should just settle the moment any boiling or stirring finishes, but if not alterations will be needed. I may also have to brace it in some way; its nice and round when put in but could easily become an oval or something like that.
Will try to get a decent plug today and do a test boil with water..
Cheers
kev
The tank is about 700mm high by 550 diameter, with a 150mm hole in the top. Its just the right size to let me reach the bottom, although it takes a little effort to get to the very furthest corner - it was being able to reach which tempted me to try leaving the top on really. And aside from insulation and steam control it seemed a shame (and a bit un-reversible) to grind off the top such a well made tank. But I definately wouldn't have left it on if it was even a few inches taller or being used for an MT like Haz is doing. I guess time will tell really - if necessary it would be easy enough to grind some or all of the top off..
Thanks for the idea of copper inserts Dave. I'd thought that I could weight it down but hadn't considered doing it from inside, that could be neat. Initially I'm going to see what happen though; the braid has a reasonable weight compared to its surface area and is quite floppy - it should just settle the moment any boiling or stirring finishes, but if not alterations will be needed. I may also have to brace it in some way; its nice and round when put in but could easily become an oval or something like that.
Will try to get a decent plug today and do a test boil with water..
Cheers
kev
Kev
- Kev888
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Re: 25gal ss boiler build + immersion heater - pics
Right, got a plug today and have now wired it up. My ceramic connection block hasn't arrived yet so I'm temporarily bypassing the thermostat with a plastic job rated at a pathetic 80 degreesC, the stiff wire on the immersion terminal looks like it should keep it away from anthing though so it should manage for a one-off test even if it melts the plastic (I've also made very, very sure that the metal enclosure is earthed properly!)
Its set up outside, in case of the type of 'issues' one could have with 25 gallons of boiling water, and I plugged it in; contact at 5.30pm. Initial water temperature is 19.5 degrees, there are about 113 litres, and so at a nominal rate of 2.7kW@230v I calculate it should take about 4hrs to reach boiling, before real-world losses. So hopefully sometime around 10pm or so there'll be a boil on. Or some sort of catastrophic failure before that point of course, but I'm trying not to think about that
Kev
Its set up outside, in case of the type of 'issues' one could have with 25 gallons of boiling water, and I plugged it in; contact at 5.30pm. Initial water temperature is 19.5 degrees, there are about 113 litres, and so at a nominal rate of 2.7kW@230v I calculate it should take about 4hrs to reach boiling, before real-world losses. So hopefully sometime around 10pm or so there'll be a boil on. Or some sort of catastrophic failure before that point of course, but I'm trying not to think about that
Kev
Kev