Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

The forum for discussing all kinds of brewing paraphernalia.
adm

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by adm » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:43 am

befuggled wrote:It would appear that the exhaust fumes are ducted round the inner vessel and out through a chimney near the top.
If so it is quite easy to visualise one of these as your new boiler.
Indeed.....that was my first though....a shiny 120L boiler.
befuggled wrote:The space between inner and outer appears to be 75mm or so. Are you thinking of getting some insulation into this gap for the mash tun, or using the second vessel as the HLT? Of course, with RIMS you don't need to insulate be it offends my greener inclinations!
There appears to be three layers to these pots. Difficult to tell, but that's what the chap said. There's the internal vessel skin which is fired by the boiler. As you say, the heat then goes up the sides and out of the exhaust at the back. Which would make it very suitable for use indoors if I just ducted the exhaust out the window.

Then there's another skin between the vessel and the outside skin and there's insulation in between these two.
befuggled wrote:On the other hand, a third identical vessel would make a very attractive and symmetrical line-up....
Or is it all still a twinkle in the eye? In that case, keep the twinkle focussed on the new brewery otherwise there could be more kids than corneys.....
Well.... I'm thinking about a line of three of these mounted on a wheeled frame. But to be honest, I'm a bit scared about the size it would be! My other option is just to use one of these pots as a boiler, use an 80L thermobox for the mash tun and then maybe a 100L keg as HLT.

Although, the sheer scale of a project using three of these vessels kind of calls to me as well..... I'd probably use all three as direct fired gas vessels, although as you say, with the RIMS setup there's really no need for heat to the mash tun itself, so it might make sense to fill the base of that one with rockwool or something....

befuggled

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by befuggled » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:58 am

Damn - I knew I shouldn't have had the last couple of pints!
If I hadn't, I might not have had to get up for a leak at about 04:00, and then I would not have laid there, half asleep, thinking of YOUR new pots...
So, a Flight of Mash Tun Fantasy: :shock:
Perforated stainless steel false bottom - it looks like a very effective bottom drain already.
Maybe 5-8mm clearance to ensure a fluid reservoir.
Pumped RIMS return but no heater.
Block up 85% or so of the burner jets.
Make sure that the pilot light keeps the safety valve on (it should do).
The PID controls a solenoid main gas valve, it would probably work with bang on-off, but might be better with linear control (e.g. PID in the Red Lion range). Sensor would be in the return pipe as usual.

So why the hell am I thinking about YOUR pots when I have no intention of getting any - (honest dear..., let me take you out for lunch and maybe a new frock...)

Meanwhile, the SV rump steak yesterday was an experience and a whole Leg of Lamb has been in overnight =P~

dr_watts
Tippler
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:32 pm
Location: West Yorkshire and whenever possible Co. Mayo ROI
Contact:

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by dr_watts » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:02 pm

Following this thread with interest as hoping to do something very similar having hopefully secured 3 of these for HLT, Mash and Boiler.

The burner appear to be from these guys and they do a LPG version at £80 http://www.stockpotsrus.co.uk/

If you wanted to really up the ante you could go for the 32 jet version. Going to see if they do replacement jets but for £80 might just replace the while ring as the pots are cheap enough to do it.

Let's hope we can do something great with these.

On the fermenter idea I think the Biofuel conical fermenters are OK. Whilst the thread isn't great for cleanliness if you use something like chlorine dioxide (sodium chlorite and acid mix) it is a soluble gas and will penetrate into all areas. They use it extensively in the food industry already so safe for food use at 1-2 ppm. Fantastic stuff and really cheap too.

A 120 L fermeter will set us back £100 ish and just a couple of stainless fittings to reduce it down.

Let me know if you need more info.
Genius and insanity are but a small step apart. I often feel that I have taken that step.

adm

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by adm » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:46 am

befuggled wrote: So why the hell am I thinking about YOUR pots when I have no intention of getting any - (honest dear..., let me take you out for lunch and maybe a new frock...)
:D :D :D No idea.....but I'm hoping to get a lot of help on this project from others here.....so keep on thinking!

You're on the same track as me....

I called H&G to enquire about SS false bottoms already. I'll get one for the MT and probably one for the kettle too. Definitely pumped RIMS return - probably with a heater too, just for grins.... Think I'll replace the whole burner and pilot light assembly...current researching ignition modules for boilers and things like that. Probably should be a smaller burner on the MT though - good point.

adm

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by adm » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:53 am

dr_watts wrote:Following this thread with interest as hoping to do something very similar having hopefully secured 3 of these for HLT, Mash and Boiler.
Excellent! Welcome to the Juggernaut club! (my new name for this brewery, seeing as how the pots came from Juggs Foods)
dr_watts wrote:The burner appear to be from these guys and they do a LPG version at £80 http://www.stockpotsrus.co.uk/
I also found these in the US - but can't seem to get shipping added. I'll call them instead to see if they'll ship to the UK:
MULTIJET BURNER
dr_watts wrote:If you wanted to really up the ante you could go for the 32 jet version. Going to see if they do replacement jets but for £80 might just replace the while ring as the pots are cheap enough to do it.

Let's hope we can do something great with these.

On the fermenter idea I think the Biofuel conical fermenters are OK. Whilst the thread isn't great for cleanliness if you use something like chlorine dioxide (sodium chlorite and acid mix) it is a soluble gas and will penetrate into all areas. They use it extensively in the food industry already so safe for food use at 1-2 ppm. Fantastic stuff and really cheap too.

A 120 L fermeter will set us back £100 ish and just a couple of stainless fittings to reduce it down.

Let me know if you need more info.
Great. PantsMachine got a nice looking plastic conical recently too...although I haven't really got as far as thinking about fermenters yet :D

I'm currently debating whether I should take the legs off these pots and mount them on a wheeled frame....

dr_watts
Tippler
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:32 pm
Location: West Yorkshire and whenever possible Co. Mayo ROI
Contact:

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by dr_watts » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:15 am

Nice burners but might cost as much as buying from here with shipping. Also the ignition and other things mights fit. I might pop one of the assemblies into the place in Leicester once I get them and see what can be fully salvaged. A no flame gas cut off would be really useful as I imagine these things could empty a gas bottle in no time.

I am thinking of getting a nice machine shop (we work with a number of heavy metal foundries) to make me up a nice false bottom and hop strainer. Will also check out the outlet issue.

Got 1 march may pump and thinking I am going to need a few more.

I was thinking of getting the mash tun mounted on a frame with hook and eye type swivel connectors to make it easy to swing up and thus drop out the spent malt. Will require a bit of welding onto the pot but should be easy for someone with knowledge and will make cleaning a doddle with a jet wash once empty.

I was going to leave the legs on just in case I ever neede to floor mount them again. Once off hard to put back on and if in a frame they shouldn't get in the way.

I was wandering around a platic extrusion factory the other day eying up some stainless conical hoppers that could have converted into a fermenter. Trouble is these would be far too small now. :-).

Have this wonderful idea of turning the whole thing into a plc controlled mega homebrew. I know exactly what I want to do trouble is the working out how to do it.

*EDIT* - Just found these and it may be possible to re-jet. http://www.cateringburners.co.uk/duoflam.htm
Last edited by dr_watts on Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Genius and insanity are but a small step apart. I often feel that I have taken that step.

aeddon

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by aeddon » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:23 am

these are gona make some seriously cool brewerys, enjoy people. I'm resisting with every cell in my body, must not buy, must not buy.....

PeteBrissenden

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by PeteBrissenden » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:45 pm

Those butterfly valves should be easy enough to sort out they look like either 2" or 1.5" from those pics. Either way there should be standard reducers that will fit to take them down to 1"

Looks like they will make a very smart brewery. I'm quite jealous!

mysterio

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by mysterio » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:03 pm

Incredible, I'm looking forward to seeing how this brewery develops.

adm

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by adm » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:17 pm

dr_watts wrote:Nice burners but might cost as much as buying from here with shipping. Also the ignition and other things mights fit. I might pop one of the assemblies into the place in Leicester once I get them and see what can be fully salvaged. A no flame gas cut off would be really useful as I imagine these things could empty a gas bottle in no time.
I'll probably completely redo the gas system on mine. Not sure how yet, but I'd like each burner to be controlled by a PID, a solenoid valve and some kind of auto ignition system.
dr_watts wrote:I am thinking of getting a nice machine shop (we work with a number of heavy metal foundries) to make me up a nice false bottom and hop strainer. Will also check out the outlet issue.
There's a metal fabrication place near me. I need to have a chat with them, but I think we might end up becoming friends. Alternatively, I'll give the guys that made Scooby's brew stand a call. Their work looks great. I'm thinking 50mm SS box section. Currently messing around with Google Sketchup to learn how to draw it out.
dr_watts wrote:Got 1 march may pump and thinking I am going to need a few more.
2 should do it. I've got one so far as well. The only problem is the head is 1/2". I've got a feeling I might need to move up to 1" hose and fittings on this brewery though. You can probably buy replacement 1" March pump heads anyway...
dr_watts wrote:I was thinking of getting the mash tun mounted on a frame with hook and eye type swivel connectors to make it easy to swing up and thus drop out the spent malt. Will require a bit of welding onto the pot but should be easy for someone with knowledge and will make cleaning a doddle with a jet wash once empty.
Now that's just insane. :D I thought the same at first, but these buggers are really big and heavy. However - luckily enough, they are a really nice shape for emptying. Quite wide with a rounded bottom, so it would be easy to scoop the mash out without much stretching. Plus the 2" outlet means you can wash the last bits straight out the bottom.
dr_watts wrote:I was going to leave the legs on just in case I ever neede to floor mount them again. Once off hard to put back on and if in a frame they shouldn't get in the way.
Yeah, but if the legs do come off, the frame could have higher ground clearance which might be useful. They bolt on and off, so once I've cleaned one up, I'll have a play around and see. I'm still undecided, might go legs off....might go legs on....
dr_watts wrote:I was wandering around a platic extrusion factory the other day eying up some stainless conical hoppers that could have converted into a fermenter. Trouble is these would be far too small now. :-).

Have this wonderful idea of turning the whole thing into a plc controlled mega homebrew. I know exactly what I want to do trouble is the working out how to do it.
Me too. I thought last night about a big waterproof touch screen as the entire interface. Maybe even a Mac Mini 8) controlling the whole shebang. The problem is, it would require loads of custom software, and I can't write code.

dr_watts wrote:*EDIT* - Just found these and it may be possible to re-jet. http://www.cateringburners.co.uk/duoflam.htm
Interesting....

adm

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by adm » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:31 pm

Yep - it looks like Duoflame LPG jets are the replacement jets for propane:

http://www.rcmcateringequipment.co.uk/h ... nese_.html

Image

Now i wonder how much they are....I'll need 60 of the buggers.

Also....these might be a good pilot and ignitor unit (I'm chucking these as they are absolutely filthy and totally encrusted with solid burnt gunk). There's no way to ignite the burners the way the pots are set up now - I guess they must have just left the pilots on all the time and lit the things from underneath if they ever went out.

dr_watts
Tippler
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:32 pm
Location: West Yorkshire and whenever possible Co. Mayo ROI
Contact:

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by dr_watts » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:18 pm

I'll probably completely redo the gas system on mine. Not sure how yet, but I'd like each burner to be controlled by a PID, a solenoid valve and some kind of auto ignition system.
That would be nice if you could set it up. The solenoids are easy, visit http://www.solenoid.co.uk they do a full range. We get 30% discount too so let e know if there is anything you need.
2 should do it. I've got one so far as well. The only problem is the head is 1/2". I've got a feeling I might need to move up to 1" hose and fittings on this brewery though. You can probably buy replacement 1" March pump heads anyway...
Mine is 3/8" so going to really struggle to do anything with 120 L. Going to have to get a couple more I think.
Now that's just insane. :D I thought the same at first, but these buggers are really big and heavy. However - luckily enough, they are a really nice shape for emptying. Quite wide with a rounded bottom, so it would be easy to scoop the mash out without much stretching. Plus the 2" outlet means you can wash the last bits straight out the bottom.
If getting something welded into a frame might as well have the option. The swing round fittings should move easily once the unit is located.
Yeah, but if the legs do come off, the frame could have higher ground clearance which might be useful. They bolt on and off, so once I've cleaned one up, I'll have a play around and see. I'm still undecided, might go legs off....might go legs on....
Didn't know they bolted on or off. In that case easy.
Me too. I thought last night about a big waterproof touch screen as the entire interface. Maybe even a Mac Mini 8) controlling the whole shebang. The problem is, it would require loads of custom software, and I can't write code.
And you called me insane :D :D :D. Nice idea but well outside my ability. I think a HERMS might be better as I have a small plate heat exchanger and currently use it for cooling as it is so efficient.
dr_watts wrote:*EDIT* - Just found these and it may be possible to re-jet. http://www.cateringburners.co.uk/duoflam.htm
Interesting....[/quote]

Like the idea of new jets but might cost as much as buying a new ring. They look to have an ignition lead on them? Is this just too gunked up?
Genius and insanity are but a small step apart. I often feel that I have taken that step.

adm

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by adm » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:43 pm

dr_watts wrote:Like the idea of new jets but might cost as much as buying a new ring. They look to have an ignition lead on them? Is this just too gunked up?
I know....the jets are likely to be a few quid each....so it may well just be cheaper to buy new burners. I've sent an email to the Duoflame guys to enquire.

There's no ignition lead though - it's a 1/4" gas pipe for the pilot and the other pipe is the thermocouple.

User avatar
Andy
Virtually comatose but still standing
Posts: 8716
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:00 pm
Location: Ash, Surrey
Contact:

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by Andy » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:55 pm

Wow, you've upped the ante there! Have you made a start on cleaning them up yet ?
Dan!

haz66

Re: Bad Dog Two - 120L Brewery

Post by haz66 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:52 pm

These guys do some burners which look a lot like yours ADM
http://www.bes.co.uk/
Page 15 for commercial burners.

Post Reply