Electric or gas or both?

[Beardy]

Ok, so with encouragement from Mrs B, I'm looking to set to this weekend with some brewery building after something of a hiatus. However, I'm now wondering about the best energy sources to use, as I've noticed quite a few use gas. I like electricity and feel quite at home playing with it, no matter what Mr Prescott's part P might say. And being a boaty sort, gas worries me a little, especially the bottled variety. But I'm (sadly) a perfectionist, and seeing you expert HBCB using gas at least for your Kettles has got me all anxious. I'm also having bouts about an electric kettle with a false bottom. False bottom above the elements or below the elements?

Therefore what are the pros and cons of gas powered kettles, are they really better than electric kettles, and is a false bottom in a kettle of either power the wrong way to go? Will using a hop back eliminate the need for a false bottom or hop stopper.

Yours in OCD anxiety
Beardy.

[boingy]

There are pros and cons to both.

I have an electric HLT so I can heat it on a timer during the early hours.
I have a gas boiler because it is more controllable and because I brew in the garage where there is only a single 13 Amp supply. I brew 40 litres so a single 3kW element would be slooooow. Having used both gas and electric boilers I would always go for gas. I used to use a Bruheat boiler and I was forever cleaning the element to stop it cutting out during the boil.

The downside to gas is that you need good ventilation so you can't really use it in the house, plus there is the inconvenience of lugging the bulky cylinder around when it needs refilling and the risk of running out mid-boil.

Even if you have a hopback you need a decent hop stopper in the boiler otherwise the pipes will just clog up.

[JontyR]

Beardy,

i'm in a similar position to you as I'm just about to start my build and I've given this loads of thought. I've done 10 brews on my 1st all electric set up and I've been really pleased with the HLT but have had a few frustrating cut outs with the boiler (down to my not cleaning the elements thoroughly enough even though I thought they were ok). Also, as with many others, family commitments mean that time is a bit limited. So I'm opting for an electric HLt that can be set on a timer/temp controller and gas boiler so I have no burnt wort on element worries.

[GrowlingDogBeer]

I have an electric HLT, which I fill with hot water from my Combination Boiler.
I have a Gas boiler, and would never go back to electric for the boiler. I have a limited 13 Amp electric supply in the garage and to boil 50 litres I want lots of power as I have little patience so gas is the only real option. I love its controlability and the fact I don't have to clean the wort off the element after each brew now.

I would always recommend gas for the boiler, for me electric is fine for the HLT, but if you are brewing outside then maybe you want gas for that too.

[adeybambam]

Has anyone used both in a boiler? I'm considering using gas with a back-up immersion element. Providing all the electrical gubbins was kept away from the flame, that would be ok wouldn't it? Definitely overkill I know, but a also a built in insurance policy.

[Skiptonian]

Electric elements seem to create a larger variation in heat gradient in the HLT, much larger than you get with Gas. My guess is the large surface area of the Gas burner helps.

I also prefer to have the cost of the brew off the "House" costs.

Skiptonian

[GrowlingDogBeer]

What sort of insurance policy does electric give you though if you have gas.

How much can go wrong with a Gas Burner? The only real possibility is you could run out of gas, the best insurance policy for that is a spare bottle.

I think you would have trouble putting an electric element in the side and keeping it away from the flames enough, as it does get a bit warm up the sides of a stockpot with a big gas burner underneath it.

[Kev888]

Interesting thread this! I'm currently thinking that 3kw takes quite a long time for 100L, so I'm also in a dilemma about upgrading the element to a more industrial one, or swapping to gas.

I 'currently' use an electric boiler myself, it has a 3kw 11" immersion element which is designed to be on for long periods (and I also bypassed the thermostat), so it doesn't seem to give me any trouble at all. Its also got a large enough area for its power that whilst a film of break material will be deposited on it by the end of the boil this doesn't burn on, so its a doddle to wipe off with a non-stick scrubby pad. Its also almost silent and not a problem for indoor use.

BUT: I mainly just went with electricity to avoid having to deal with gas cylinders. I would personally agree with the above posts that gas is 'the best' option (if you brew somewhere suitable for a burner anyway) - the power is more easily controllable and within reason you can choose components that give you the power you want - there are no restrictions from the available electricity supply.



Just wondering, do people find gas noisy/wearing at all? I find the hypnotically silent churning of hoppy wort quite calming, not sure if I'd be happy with the sound of gas roaring away; some burners I've seen in real life are okay, but most that I've seen in web videos sound very loud, not sure if its just the crappy audio though.

Also, I've heard rumours that gas is likely to get more costly as the easier to access reserves are exhausted, but I've no idea how real an issue that would be - does anyone have any idea?

Cheers
Kev

[JontyR]

Kev,

I suppose one way to look at it, is that if you go down the gas route and don't like it/not suited. You can stick the burner for sale, get deposit back on the gas bottle and then cut a hole in you pot and go electric. If you go electric and then decide to go gas, you've got a blinking great hole in the side of your pot to deal with.

[GrowlingDogBeer]

I wouldn't say my burner is exceptionally noisy, but it's not quiet either. However with the burner going and the extractor going there is no way you could here the wort bubbling away.

As for the cost of gas going up as it becomes harder to find. I think I''m right in saying 50% of our electric is currently produced in Gas fired Power stations so you are going to be seeing price rises either way.

[Kev888]

Thanks chaps, most helpful. Hmm decisions decisions - I think then it'll come down to relative power; what I can get from my electrical supply may (hopefully) decide it one way or the other. The gas burners 'look' enormously powerful, but I understand they're less efficient than an (almost 100% immersed) element, so its presumably not a direct comparison.

In any case, I've already got a hole in the boiler so at least thats not something I can worry about any longer Though its an immersion sized hole, and they make immersion plugs/blanks for those.

Cheers
Kev

[far9410]

Is electric more efficient tho', as external gas heating sources lose a lot of heat to the surroundings

[smeggedup]

i'm all gas,
but i should have gone electric for the hlt and gas for boiler, just far more control over temps.

[Hogarth]

Is electric more efficient tho', as external gas heating sources lose a lot of heat to the surroundings

As far as I know it is. An element immersed in a liquid is about the only time that electricity is more efficient than gas.

[GARYSMIFF]

gave up on the gas as its never there just when you need it, unless we are in the 1970's Lecy works for me, that said I have a gas back up:)