NO-CHILL experiment

[Fil]

is this an equipment post? Im using jerrycans/cubes?
I have been maturing 2 brews which i no-chilled and stored for a week prior to fermentation.

NoChill being the term used to decribe the method of pouring near boiling wort into a jerrycan or cube, to sterilise it so the wort can be stored sterile and sealed for future fermentation. A method championed and developed by aussie brewers i believe.

the beer has been in the keg for about 8 weeks now for the second brew, and i have sunk a mini keg of each in the meanwhile.

I hope to up my brewlength soon to upto 3x what i currently brew but am stuck with minimal fermentation capacity for the short term.. so nocilling part of the brew to stage the fermentation over a few weeks seems like an option.


the brews were both AG Kits from the WHS, one a TTL copy , and the second a Sarah Huges Dark Mild,
TTLcopy

S,H,D,M,


I used 25l jerrycans(cubes) of ebay and bought extra caps so i could seal and store, then change lids to one with a hole and airlock fitted after pitching, the lids have inner ridges which mean the small grommets cant fit easily so a larger bung hole was needed.

i made the error of drawing a scale of volume on the cubes prior to sterilising with hot wort so the deforming of the cube threw that right out..

And i found i needed to vent the HOT cubes as they bulged quite a lot during the rolling and all surface sterilisation.

after a week in the cube the sides remained sucked right in but there was a sediment falling. it was finer than any trub/break material ive had durring primary and did look yeastish. however the seals had held and if it had been yeast the cans would have been bulging with pressure.. so i am guessing it was cold break material just formed slower and perhaps thus finer?


The TTL copy is being drunk daily now, its got good clarity and isnt a bad pint, its not as full a flavour as the TTL copy i made following the GW recipe. but a pint to enjoy, and one im proud to serve..

The Sarah Hughs Dark Mild ?? quite a high alcohol content for a mild, closer to 6% than 3%,
its not clear, its a bit murky when held up to the light, there was a hint of an extra dry malty flavour in the mini keg i downed which is why i left the big keg to mature that bit longer. the slightly malty over-dry flavour is now stronger and not very nice.. we did braise some beef in the mini keg mild, and it wasn't the best of meals. I would let anyone else taste this... not servable.

Having performed both brews i think i can say the failure of the Mild is down to me and not the nochill method, its my first dodgy AG but i did have a bit of an incident with the brew so mia culpa on that..

So Nochill can turn out a reasonable beer.... and i can screw up an ag brew
another tick towards a bigger brew...

[barneey]

Just a quicky, how long can you store the wort in a cube before use? are we talking weeks / months?

[Fil]

weeks for sure, Im sure the guys down under have reported long store periods but i cant seem to find a link to anything like that right now.. but im sampling this evening

[Jocky]

Regarding the material in the cube - it probably is cold break. As far as I'm aware the cold break will occur when you get the temperature down whether it's done quickly or slowly.

[kane]

Just a quicky, how long can you store the wort in a cube before use? are we talking weeks / months?

I'm sure I remember reading an article or forum post about someone keeping the wort stored for over a year without issue. But months doesn't seem out of the ordinary to many on the Aussie homebrew boards.

[Fil]

Idle thought as the 'cubes ' i got of ebay came with lids n seals i wouldnt trust for a month, as it was i was checking em morning and night to ensure the seal was maintained. But for long term storage a corny could be employed, and as it will need gas to balance the pressure as it cools, would o2 be suitable, storring under pressure with c02 would leave the wort in need of serious oxygenation prior to fermentation, while if stored under pressure with o2, it would be a gift to the yeast when pitched... or would the o2 react and oxidise the wort over long storage period?

[barneey]

Interesting, I`ve done a little more reading up on the no chill method, as I already have a couple of jerrycans I might well give it a go to see how it turns out, but for an experiment I`ll probadly see if I can store the cubes for a period three & six months respectively & then ferment.

Cheers

[gregorach]

Man, my instincts are just screaming "that's not sterile"... I'd be cautious about keeping wort around for that long even if it's been properly autoclaved in its container. I'm not 100% sure that wort is chemically stable over those sorts of time periods. As for microbiological stability... Let's just say I'm massively dubious about the whole concept.

[paz1]

I just did my 1st no chill over the weekend just gone. My main reason for trying it was time. I find the brew day becomes too long with everything done on the same day, so I mashed over night, boiled 1st thing in the morning and no chilled the wort after the boil. I was done for 10:30ish am. Plus I also found that the actual process was much more stress free .
I have just pitched last night (Wednesday), so I cannot comment on the end result just yet, but I have to say that the wort tasted great from the trial jar; nice and very hoppy.
I also had a lot of deposit at the bottom of the cube, and as the gravity of the wort from the cube was higher then specified in the recipe I topped up FV with boiled water and the remainder of the wort from the cube with the deposit at the bottom of it went into a 1 gallon carboy. Lets see how things pan out .

[super_simian]

Man, my instincts are just screaming "that's not sterile"...

Why do you feel it isn't sterile? The wort is transferred above 80C and all the interior surfaces of the container are exposed to that heat, if you do it properly - where could contamination come from?

[Jocky]

I think it's worth noting that no-chill evolved in Australia from the need to conserve water in places where you can't continuously run the tap to get cold water to cool with. It wasn't really meant for long storage of wort.

Considering that extract goes off over a period of months - liquid faster than dry - I'd pretty much expect wort to do the same, but MUCH faster.

[barneey]

Yep I was thinking of it as more of an experiment from the point of view that I`m not allowed to drink for a while, so this could mean I still experiment with the setup and get it dialed in / procedures sorted out without (hopefully not) wasting the end result + lets me have a play around with a few sucessive yeast experiments. In reality of actually trying the method for an every day brew method I would probadly just stick to a chiller unit and ferment in a normal way. It was taking me long enough to get through 2 corny batch in the first place, so rapid brew turn around was never an issue.

Cheers

[gregorach]

Man, my instincts are just screaming "that's not sterile"...

Why do you feel it isn't sterile? The wort is transferred above 80C and all the interior surfaces of the container are exposed to that heat, if you do it properly - where could contamination come from?

80C is not hot enough to achieve true sterilisation - there are many spores which can survive boiling. Proper sterilisation requires higher temperatures than can be achieved by boiling under atmospheric pressure - which is why labs use autoclaves, and those of us who are serious about our yeast storage and propagation pressure cook everything.

Even in the commercial brewery, wort is not sterile. The lowering of pH and dissolved oxygen content at the start of fermentation are very important in discouraging heat-resistant organisms from growing in the wort. While there are a number of beasties which can survive the boil, there are none (that I know of) which can also thrive in the low pH, low oxygen environment of fermenting beer - at least, none you're likely to encounter.

[jonnyt]

I've no chilled about 15 batches now. All have been fine without infection.
However I tend to pitch within a few days and am sceptical of doing this for months.

Also be wary of bitterness and how to judge late hops as it's probably different to when using a chiller. I've had good success with hop teas for example.

I also wait 15 to 30 minutes prior to transfer and always sterilise everything first.

[Underground Joe]

Yep I was thinking of it as more of an experiment from the point of view that I`m not allowed to drink for a while, so this could mean I still experiment with the setup and get it dialed in / procedures sorted out without (hopefully not) wasting the end result + lets me have a play around with a few sucessive yeast experiments. In reality of actually trying the method for an every day brew method I would probadly just stick to a chiller unit and ferment in a normal way. It was taking me long enough to get through 2 corny batch in the first place, so rapid brew turn around was never an issue.

Cheers

If you do want to carry on brewing while you can't drink I'm sure I could help you dispose of the beer that will be stocking up.