Advice Needed on FV - STC1000 Fridge Route or Brewtech FTSS

[Uncle Albert]

Hello gents

More stupid questions from a novice.

Filled 3 crusader kegs from my brewtech bucket. Things seem to going well. Been conditioning for 8 weeks, but I strongly suspect my temperature control was not good enough.

So would my money be better spent on the tried and tested fridge/stc1000 FV temperature controller route or the new FTSS Brewtech?

I don't think the end price difference will be much...

I know Rob the Malt Miller is getting some of these Brewtech FTSS hot/cold coil things in December. They are not cheap by any means, but might be multitaskers once I try all grain. Will be good to have not that makes things simpler.

You need a coolbox with warm water in (aquarium heater) or cold water (tap or ice). Then the controller and pump cycles it through the coil until desired setpoint reached.

Ultimately to go down the serious Belgian beer route, weissbier and lagering.

So is there any reason not to get the FTSS?

Thanks!

James

[Dave-Leeds]

I have the stc set up. Easy to wire up and temp is bang on

sounds like you will have more kit lying about to knock over if you brew in a tight space like many of us do.

with the stc i just have a plastic box sat on top of worktop. No cool box full of water etc

hope this helps

[roscoe]

A fridge or 2 fridges gives you more flexibility providing you have the space.
Your fermenter can fit easily inside a fridge and by gaffer taping the temp sensor to the metal side of your FV temp your temp control will be fine.

Some of the more modern fridges with thicker side insulation are way smaller inside and therefore for me not as handy. I have two fridges, one can fit either 2x70L pots fermenting OR 2x50L kegs for lagering so you can ferm or dedicate it to lagering depending on the seasonal temperatures you are dealing with.

The dedicated FV temp control solutions come into there own once the FV volume gets bigger and you can no longer just lift it from room to garage etc. Also once you fit insulation to a FV for keeping it warmer in winter then you need a cooling solution to avoid the initial ferment racig away too high.

Juggling.... there's always an extra ball to deal to handle................

[Kev888]

Before I mention any pros and cons I should say that both the fridge + heater approach and the recirculating liquid approach are a 'major' improvement over having no temperature control during fermentation. There are differences in performance between the two methods, but relatively speaking these are much more minor refinements and either method is worth having IMHO.

Generally the STC, fridge and heater will be much cheaper if you can get a free fridge from freecycle or somewhere {I see the brewtech system leaves you to provide the heating/cooling of water bath in addition, so you would still need to obtain/arrange things to cool and heat in any case, and something with a compressor (such as a fridge or shelf/beer-line cooler) will be much more efficient than a cheap peltier/TEC-based cool box}. Another advantage is that the fridge&heater method can easily provide both cooling and heating as and when needed - e.g. should you ferment in a climate of both warm and cool periods during the fermentation. For me, the physical setup can be both a positive and a negative - the FV remains free of pipes, coils etc so is easy to take in and out, but on the other hand you do need space for a big enough fridge to accommodate the FV + working headroom, which gets more awkward as the FV gets bigger.

The recirculating approach is IMO slightly superior in performance, largely because liquid is a much better conductor of heat so there is far less separation between the heating/cooling devices and their affect on the wort, so changes can be made faster and be more tightly controlled {unlike a fridge setup theres no need to decide between measuring the air (to protect heating/cooling devices from excess) or the wort (for more accuracy) or some compromise}. Though there typically are pipes running to the FV or its lid which can be annoying when you want to move them, and sometimes an immersion coil is used which creates a small addition to the cleaning/sanitising regime. You also need separate systems (or at least pumps/valves and controllers) for multiple FVs whereas you can (at a loss of individual control) get more than one FV in a single large fridge.

Its slightly more complicated to provide recirculation of both hot and cool water - some recirculating systems go the extra mile to do that, some may use an electrical brew-belt or heat pad for the heating side, but others may only cool (or heat) at any given time. If you ferment somewhere in an unstable/unpredictable temperature you may need both cooling and heating - automatically available as and when; in that case I would want to check out how the brewtech system works - I'm not familiar with it but it may be that you can only predetermine which rather then let the system automatically choose to heat or cool as it needs to.

Cheers
kev

[Uncle Albert]

Thanks guys. Have decided to drop the Brewtech idea.

Have ordered a pretty built stc1000 controller for 40 quid. I am also going to order a candy 150 wine cooler. Goes from 8 to 18 degrees celcius

Will assess how reliable the wine cooler is... Heating belt and stc1000 will be available if requested.

Added bonus of the girlfriend gets somewhere to store here wine, occasionally.

Good idea??

[Kev888]

It looks rather smart and has a higher temperature range than most fridges, so if you're going to use this simply to look after your beer then it could be quite suitable (provided the room is warm enough not to need a heater, anyway). Though if you wanted to sometimes set it it warmer for priming/conditioning and at other times cooler to cellar type temperatures (for keeping and serving) the temperature changes may not be ideal for the girlfriend's wine

For fermentation I'd personally prefer the greater control and accuracy of the STC approach. In that case the fridge's high temperature range would be unnecessary (as the STC essentially acts in place of the fridge's controller), and in fact perhaps even undesirable as normal fridges are likely to go cooler - better if you wanted to crash cool after fermentation without having to bypass/hack the fridge's thermostat. (Probably the best approach would be two fridges - an old hacked normal one with your STC for fermenting and conditioning, and a posh wine cooler for keeping the beer at constant cellar temperature )

BUT I'd want to thoroughly check the internal dimensions of the wine cooler; some I've seen are designed around bottles and the compressor hump can be quite tall compared to normal fridges (i.e. could interfere more with a fermenter or kegs).

Cheers
kev

[roscoe]

Yes circa heating is a little more complex

However, one easy solution is to use a cheap washing machine Hot/Cold valve @£4 and a 100W (or less) radiator heater in a short piece of pipe, then either do a fancy controller like arduino or use a manual switch to open the hot water valve to bypass the chiller circuit.....
I had looked at brew belt pad, but this seemed simpler and it can be swapped over to another FV if required and has no worries with plastic FV.

Works a treat, just need some auto control and ramping next !

Before I mention any pros and cons I should say that both the fridge + heater approach and the recirculating liquid approach are a 'major' improvement over having no temperature control during fermentation. There are differences in performance between the two methods, but relatively speaking these are much more minor refinements and either method is worth having IMHO.

Generally the STC, fridge and heater will be much cheaper if you can get a free fridge from freecycle or somewhere {I see the brewtech system leaves you to provide the heating/cooling of water bath in addition, so you would still need to obtain/arrange things to cool and heat in any case, and something with a compressor (such as a fridge or shelf/beer-line cooler) will be much more efficient than a cheap peltier/TEC-based cool box}. Another advantage is that the fridge&heater method can easily provide both cooling and heating as and when needed - e.g. should you ferment in a climate of both warm and cool periods during the fermentation. For me, the physical setup can be both a positive and a negative - the FV remains free of pipes, coils etc so is easy to take in and out, but on the other hand you do need space for a big enough fridge to accommodate the FV + working headroom, which gets more awkward as the FV gets bigger.

The recirculating approach is IMO slightly superior in performance, largely because liquid is a much better conductor of heat so there is far less separation between the heating/cooling devices and their affect on the wort, so changes can be made faster and be more tightly controlled {unlike a fridge setup theres no need to decide between measuring the air (to protect heating/cooling devices from excess) or the wort (for more accuracy) or some compromise}. Though there typically are pipes running to the FV or its lid which can be annoying when you want to move them, and sometimes an immersion coil is used which creates a small addition to the cleaning/sanitising regime. You also need separate systems (or at least pumps/valves and controllers) for multiple FVs whereas you can (at a loss of individual control) get more than one FV in a single large fridge.

Its slightly more complicated to provide recirculation of both hot and cool water - some recirculating systems go the extra mile to do that, some may use an electrical brew-belt or heat pad for the heating side, but others may only cool (or heat) at any given time. If you ferment somewhere in an unstable/unpredictable temperature you may need both cooling and heating - automatically available as and when; in that case I would want to check out how the brewtech system works - I'm not familiar with it but it may be that you can only predetermine which rather then let the system automatically choose to heat or cool as it needs to.

Cheers
kev

[dixonmike20]

I can't compare. But, I have the stc and am very pleased. I used a plastic project box and added an outlet to plug the heating and cooling sources into. I used a 3' tall dorm fridge and very small space heater. I built a 4' x 5' chamber with wood, insulating with insulation board and sealed the seams with insulating foam and insulating tape.

I've been happy with it. I've found that vigorous yeast will usually ferment 5 degrees F above the ambient temp of the chamber.

I like that there is a 3 min default lag time on the controller for turning on and off the fridge.

[darkonnis]

I use a maxi 110 and a Maxi 310 (project) to cool my fermenters. I also use a soil heating cable wrapped round the FV to provide heat if necessary. I debated the element heater approach but its a lot less efficient doing it that way. I leave the maxi to regulate itself and get temp changes of between 5 and 2 c a minute, depending on how much I try and drop the temp to.