CO2 set-up

[Meatymc]

Evening All

Not been around for a while. Lurking constantly but not had anything better to contribute on various topics than those better placed/experienced.

So, to the point.

I'm still the very basic brewer - garage, propane, constant manual temperature checking during mash, dunk sparge, non-direct water cooled coil, transfer to plastic fermentation buckets but at least have temperature controlled brew fridge. But this is where I need/want to start improving things.

I mainly brew hoppy IPAs (but also bitters, stouts, porters, ciders etc) which of course increases the chance of oxidation during hopping and transfers so introducing CO2 seems an obvious next step.

Sourced a local supplier (who supplies the breweries up here) - smallest they can offer is 6KG. Probably way too much for my use (23L every 2 weeks) but happy with the cost. Need to source a 'primary' regulator (theirs are industry standard) plus I guess piping and 'wand' of some description to purge vessels between transfers and bottling 'bucket' and bottles obviously (only bottle at the moment).

I'd love to think this is only my next step to a fully shiny closed brewing system but, whilst I could probably afford going to such lengths, couldn't justify to myself, the expense.

As usual, any suggestions appreciated.

[nallum]

It's only beer. A little imagination is all that's needed. A closed system is possible in any sufficiently sealed vessel.

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No need to waste good money on something 'shiny'. Unless it's a guitar or something else actually useful. I have a couple pressure rated FVs and they're great for conditioning naturally towards the end of fermentation, but that's it. Pressure fermentation is so overrated and done just because it can be rather than because it produces better beer. It doesn't produce better beer generally. Some people like cleaning stuff, though. As a hobby, I mean.

[Meatymc]

Cheers N

Not really bothered as yet to set-up a 'closed circuit' - just want to take the first step on reducing oxidation by purging. Going to go and talk to this local brewery supplier and see what they suggest.

[JonB]

Having gone down this rabbit hole myself recently I can suggest the below:

https://brewkegtap.co.uk/collections/keg-kits
(just buy a keg kit and you've got everything sorted bar the CO2 bottle. Their reconditioned kegs are really good value and behave like new)

The Kegland regulator works really well in my experience and at a pretty reasonable price. You can just buy this separately along with all the disconnects, etc. but by the time you've done that it's not that much more to add a reconditioned keg into the package as well.
https://brewkegtap.co.uk/products/kegla ... -regulator

BKT also have ace customer service and will tell you what you do and don't need for your setup.

I'm currently racking directly into the keg from a tap at the bottom of my fermenter using gravity. The keg gets fully purged by filling with Starsan and pushing out all of it with CO2 from the bottle. The "gas in" post is then connected with a tube to the top of the FV via the airlock (all pressure is released first as my FV is not pressure rated). The "beer out" post is connected to the bottom of the FV, and as it drains into the keg the CO2 is pushed into the top of the fermenter. Nallum's post illustrates this method very well.

Mine isn't only 100% closed because of the connection between the airlock and "gas in" tube, this is something I'm trying to refine at the moment


I have a 6kg CO2 bottle myself; it was an extra £10.00 from my supplier over a 3kg and will last twice as long so a no-brainer really...

Only warning with kegs is they do tend to breed...


Also you can try lobbing in 1/2tsp of Ascorbic Acid when you dry hop, it acts as an anti-oxidant and should help with minor O2 contamination. Bodybuilders/health food shops sell it in powdered form.

[nallum]

Cheers N

Not really bothered as yet to set-up a 'closed circuit' - just want to take the first step on reducing oxidation by purging. Going to go and talk to this local brewery supplier and see what they suggest.

I think a closed system is an integral part of your next level move, especially for heavily dry hopped modern IPAs. I can highly recommend one of these FVs:

https://brewkegtap.co.uk/products/kegla ... s=e&_v=1.0

Not just the best value for money, but compatible with achieving your next level goals and several other reasons. You can accessorise these kegmenters without spending too much, including a Kegland ‘hop dropper’ thingy. A CO2 supply has great value for the home brewer. I naturally carbonate most of my beers and mostly use CO2 for serving pressure, so 425g Soda Stream canisters work fine for me. If you go for a much bigger CO2 supply, consider some basic safety for storage and using pressure.

[Meatymc]

Having gone down this rabbit hole myself recently I can suggest the below:

https://brewkegtap.co.uk/collections/keg-kits
(just buy a keg kit and you've got everything sorted bar the CO2 bottle. Their reconditioned kegs are really good value and behave like new)

The Kegland regulator works really well in my experience and at a pretty reasonable price. You can just buy this separately along with all the disconnects, etc. but by the time you've done that it's not that much more to add a reconditioned keg into the package as well.
https://brewkegtap.co.uk/products/kegla ... -regulator

I think a closed system is an integral part of your next level move, especially for heavily dry hopped modern IPAs. I can highly recommend one of these FVs:

https://brewkegtap.co.uk/products/kegla ... s=e&_v=1.0

Thanks guys and apologies for the delayed reply.

Certainly got me thinking!!!

Been in touch with Nic at TMM who advised they can provide a simplistic set-up to do exactly what I've asked above (mini regulator, connectors etc) - if I 'insist' Cost would be £56 + delivery

The elephant in the room is the fact I could/should be retired at any moment - could have happened 2 years ago but running a company for a currently very unwell 85 year old whose son is ready - and keen, to take over if and when the worse happens. And then the same scenario with the mother-in-law which could/would mean a house move hence a bit reticent to go for broke.

Is it a sign of old age when you need a hundred words when a dozen would/should do?

[JonB]

Is it a sign of old age when you need a hundred words when a dozen would/should do?

I don't think so, otherwise I've been an old man since my late teens...


If you use John Guest connectors (like what Brew Keg Tap sell in their keg kits) then if you need to dismantle the regulator/keg/airline setup it can be done in about 5 mins and then packed away. It's then ~5 mins to setup again at the other end once you've worked out where the gas bottle and kegs live...

[Meatymc]

Is it a sign of old age when you need a hundred words when a dozen would/should do?

I don't think so, otherwise I've been an old man since my late teens...

Now been in touch with Jonny at BKT and whilst they too could supply a similar set-up to TMM, their comments echo everyone else's and I'm convinced now that the keg route is the way to go.

Thanks all

[Meatymc]

Evening All

Hope you all had a good Xmas and all the very best for 2025!

Still mulling this over to be honest which I know is a bit pathetic but if you'll please bear with me.

As I think I stated earlier, I want to swap from bottling to kegs to avoid oxidation throughout the whole process. Hot side isn't a problem, but then we're talking plastic fermentation through to bottling.

Bottling has to go but facilities (under counter fermentation temp controlled fridge only temp asset) restrict the most obvious 'best approaches' so no help (the wife would love to read that on its own) re kit - Fermzilla 3.2 with all the bells and whistles would be nice!

Lets' start with pressure fermenter (nallum credit) that fits the above but allows oxygen free dry hop additions additions - possible?

[nallum]

Oxygen free dry hopping is possible with any sealed vessel. Something like a pressure-rated kegmenter - with a 4" TC ferrule - is going to make it easier to achieve. It's only beer at the end of the day. But no shortage of con artists trying to sell crap we don't need regardless. I do wonder what some would be trying to sell regardless, outside home brew supplies. Heroin, in some cases, I have few doubts.

[JonB]

I've seen more issues with oxidation in kegs than bottle-conditioning

This will be because the yeast consumes any oxygen you introduced during packaging when it consumes the priming sugar, though mixing in a small amount of Vitamin C (1/4-1/2 tbs per 25L seems to work for me) will also act as an insurance policy (certainly hasn't done me any harm...)

You can produce really good quality hoppy beers in plastic buckets (I've done it...); for dry hopping it's always best to add this when there are still a few gravity points to go, as the still active yeast will help scrub out oxygen before it does any serious damage. I add my Vitamin C at this point rather than at packaging for a "belt and braces" approach. I simply lift the lid off and throw the hops in (and Vitamin C) at speed.

My fermentation setup is now a St/St conical (with no pressure fermentation); in essence it is no different to a plastic bucket as far as oxidation goes but the cone does help with collecting and removing trub (so clearer beer). I don't have "Oxygen free" dry hopping but my process does work; I've seen no real evidence of oxidation and the last beer I brewed (a hoppy IPA with a 7g/L dry hop) had such an aroma my wife could smell it on the other side of the room...

For transfers to kegs I purge said keg by brimming with Starsan and pushing it all out with CO2. I then remove most of the pressure and put a tube on the "gas in" post that goes into the top of the fermenter (as my fermenter is not pressure rated, most of the pressure needs to go first to avoid damaging it). I get a *nearly* closed transfer that seems to be working out for me so far, and there is no reason you couldn't do this with plastic buckets (jut make sure the pressure in the keg is almost gone or you risk breaking the bucket!)

By the way if you like brewing British Styles (bitters, porters, stouts, etc.) then DO NOT go down the Pressure Fermenting route as whilst this keeps oxygen out, the pressure suppresses yeast-based esters which are frankly essential to any British style and produces a very clean fermentation profile that does not work in certain styles. It also means special IPA yeasts like Lallemand's Verdant IPA, etc. are completely wasted in a pressure setup and this was a deal breaker for me.

I'd focus more on oxygen introduction and mitigation in your process (active yeast is your friend here) rather than shiny toys

[Meatymc]

Now had a look at kegmenters - comment re' fridge fit below

I too generally produce good hoppy beers and also bitters, stouts and porters all, effectively, using 'open fermenters'. I've no great desire to only 'pressure ferment' just to take the occasional 'perceived' oxidation issue out of the equation. Given this is occasional probably more comes down to laziness/lack of attention more than anything as my process/timings are pretty much fixed. Dry hopping has progressed over the years to an immediate 'charge' on pitching and then the main 'charge' on day 3. This does work well although compared to my process a year or so ago - when I was dry hopping at the end of fermentation having dropped to 8C, the resulting taste/aroma has less impact in my opinion hence had to increase the amount.

In conclusion...........

To do what I have been considering would mean effectively getting rid of/replacing all my post-boil kit including my fermentation fridge as nothing I've found that appeals/isn't ridiculously expensive for what I need, will fit. Is that sensible/worthwhile? Decided not.

I am going to move from bottling to kegs in due course and utilise the CO2 during transfers where possible and possibly put a kegerator together although, as we're considering moving, that'll have to go on the back burner for now.

Thanks for your contributions folks - appreciated.

[nallum]

You'll most likely need to make a supported shelf in the bottom of a standard size fridge to get above the compressor hump in order to fit in a kegmenter, as with most FVs, tbh. I usually put mine in a medium sized keezer. Luckily I've got one to hand, cleaned and sanitised ready for tomorrow's brew, next to my standard fridge, which isn't really set up for fermentation. But, as you can see, fits no problem:

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[Meatymc]

Luckily I've got one to hand, cleaned and sanitised ready for tomorrow's brew, next to my standard fridge, which isn't really set up for fermentation. But, as you can see, fits no problem:

Cheers Nallum' I did consider these kegs but that would mean brewing more frequently which doesn't really appeal at present.

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Just put an empty in ferm fridge to show my set-up and space limitations.

Decided to go with what I have for now - swapping to kegs and utilising CO2 where I can - and look again at the fermentation side as and when (and if) the proposed move goes ahead.

Thanks all

PS Next post will be recommendations on regulators

[nallum]

That looks perfectly fine. Adding a tap/spigot and replacing the airlock with a bulkhead fitting would be my choice, to exploit CO2 from primary fermentation to purge air from a sanitised keg and help with limiting O2 exposure during transfer. Pretty straightforward really. Sounds a lot more complicated than it is in practice.