Willis European Conicals

[MikeMarcus]

Unfortunately they are (were) on my old phone. I meant to check in on this thread months ago but somehow didn't get round to it.

[darkonnis]

Am i correct in thinking that these willis conicals seal, allowing you to ferment under pressure? If so, I might start tugging at SWMBO's sleeve with my best unhappy kid face.... And like a pestering kid I'll probably get a slap but it could be worth it....

[MikeMarcus]

Yup, they are pressurisable.

I have actually just been looking at adjustable pressure valves (spunding valve) with a gauge which would screw in to the 15mm fitting in the lid. Unfortunately I have reached the limit of my plumbing understanding. If anyone can point me in the right direction...

[barneey]

I`ve just found the piccies I had of the Willis conicals, if they are of any use.

[gnutz2]

I seems like they would have been better fixing the legs to the side of the fermenter (like the blichmann conical) instead of welding them to the cone, none the less it wont effect the function.

[MikeMarcus]

I'm toying with the idea of selling one of my conicals. I don't brew/drink enough to justify having to find the space for two of these in my spare room. Anyone interested?

[asd]

Regarding spunding valves/pressure (but in a Corny)

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53020#p558518

Valve is £1.39 from BES - pn 7512

Simon

[MikeMarcus]

Here's a full list of parts needed to do the same on one of these fermenters.

1/2" SPRING SAFETY VALVE 
50mm 0-30 PSI Pressure Gauge 
1/2" X 1/4" BRASS BUSH 
1/2" BRASS BSP FEMALE THREADED TEE
GAS TAPE PTFE 

[boingy]

Now if I could ever reach some sort of consistency in my brewing, I would be able to close off the blowoff valve 2 points before FG and naturally carbonate my beer before kegging.

On this subject we had a tip a while back from (I think) Critch who brews commercially and casks a point or two above FG. You can never be sure of the FG of any particular batch so you take a sample after pitching and accelerate that sample with a warmer temperature, a "forced ferment". The idea being that the sample hits FG quicker (albeit with a few potential off-flavours from the warmer temperature) so you know where your main batch will end. Not sure about carbonating it in the conical though. Get it in the keg/cask and do it there!

[Kev888]

+1 i've tried and had 'variable' results with guessing the FG based on assuming consistency. Its not soo bad if you're using cornies, as you can force carbonate or leave the PRV open to correct, but its annoying, and would be worse if bottling. So I'd agree with Boingy, either testing a forced sample or dealing with carbonation in conventional ways is safer.

I've never carbonated in the FV, I know of no reason not to (if its a pressure vessel) except that theres a 'belief' (I'm not sure about hard evidence) that CO2 can inhibit the yeast cleaning up by-products, so possibly its better to leave it until a bit later.

But just practically speaking, a stainless conical FV is expensive, £ per L compared to kegs etc; so unless you have ample FV capacity (and it sounds like you may, you lucky chap!) it can be more economic to use the FV for fermenting and leave it until the kegs etc for carbonating and conditioning.

I think Critch and others chill in the FV a couple of (tested) gravity points early, to pause the fermentation and let it settle, then keg and let it warm up after kegging for carbonating in there. I'm sure thats partly for logistics though.

Back to the thread and Its really interesting to hear how you've been going on with these, so thanks very much for posting the info!

Cheers
kev

[barneey]

+1 i've tried and had 'variable' results with guessing the FG based on assuming consistency. Its not soo bad if you're using cornies, as you can force carbonate or leave the PRV open to correct, but its annoying, and would be worse if bottling. So I'd agree with Boingy, either testing a forced sample or dealing with carbonation in conventional ways is safer.

I've never carbonated in the FV, I know of no reason not to (if its a pressure vessel) except that theres a 'belief' (I'm not sure about hard evidence) that CO2 can inhibit the yeast cleaning up by-products, so possibly its better to leave it until a bit later.

But just practically speaking, a stainless conical FV is expensive, £ per L compared to kegs etc; so unless you have ample FV capacity (and it sounds like you may, you lucky chap!) it can be more economic to use the FV for fermenting and leave it until the kegs etc for carbonating and conditioning.

I think Critch and others chill in the FV a couple of (tested) gravity points early, to pause the fermentation and let it settle, then keg and let it warm up after kegging for carbonating in there. I'm sure thats partly for logistics though.

Back to the thread and Its really interesting to hear how you've been going on with these, so thanks very much for posting the info!

Cheers
kev

+1 For my last brewday I reduced the temp in my conical brew fridge to clear + kegged and warmed a little to see what happend, still waiting on the results.

BTW how much were you looking for the conical? I`m sure a few members might be interested.

[darkonnis]

What size was it, and how much did you have in mind? Can't make any promises just yet but I have had my eye on the shinies for a little while A sucker for shiny stuff

[MikeMarcus]

65L

I'm thinking about 65% of the purchase price. That's about £470

[darkonnis]

It's a good offer, unfortunately it's just too small as I'm looking at the 100L shiny jobbies as my mates keep drinking all my beer. Good luck with the sale though

[MikeMarcus]

I'm selling my other 65L conical now. I've had great use from it and I love it to bits but seeing as I'll be brewing 5bbl batches commercially, I've no need for such a large brewlength at home. I'm downsizing to 18L, fermented in a modified corny.

The FV has been modified as follows:

1) A spunding valve has been added to the vent port to allow pressurised fermentation and fizzy beer out of the primary
2) The temperature dial (which was crap) was replaced with a PT100 probe and PID
3) A cooling coil was welded into the lid - I can chill down to 5.4°c using my maxi 210 chiller (not included)
4) A corny ball lock style gas in post has been welded into the lid to allow me to pressurise the vessel with CO2. This is useful for counter pressure bottle/keg filling and forcing stuck trub out of the bottom.

Photos of the modifications can be found here.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54080

Issues:

1) The pressure dial on the spunding valve is 100% functional but a bit gunked up. It shows about 4psi when depressurised. You can pick up a new one on eBay for a couple of quid
2) The temperature probe isn't as shiny as it looks in the pictures (when it was new). The spring thingy on the wire exit is kind of rusty (this is 100% external and doesn't touch the beer).
3) This is already known and discussed in the thread. The welds are more lumpy than you would find on a Blichmann. But it's also half the price and twice the features. In dozens of brews, I've never had an infection.

I clean and sanitise the conical by recirculating first 3% caustic and then Peracetic (or sometimes Starsan). I take the valves apart and scrub them with a toothbrush every other time I use it. I've never put Brett or Pedio in there but it has been used for Lactobacillus fermentations.

I'll throw in a bunch of new triclamp seals, a couple of hose tails and two PID controllers. One I've never managed to make work so I just use it as a mega accurate digital thermometer. The other is usually wired up to the python pump on my chiller to supply iced water to the coil.

Price £500. A bit more expensive than the last one I sold to account for the modification work that was done. Pickup or properly insured courier from Manchester, UK.

One thing worth mentioning is that if you read the thread, you'll see that when I first received the conicals I had to scrub off rust stains. These never came back. They've always remained 100% shiny inside. Deller12 bought the previous one if anyone wants to ask him if he's happy with it.