Building a Brew Shed

[lancsSteve]

OK - today saw the last big push to finish up the brew shed, and do an initial equipment test brew!

HLT Keg
Sorting out the HLT keg with removable insulation - and adding the obligatory shininess:



It has a single layer of camping mat covered in mylar around the sides and then 2" thick insulation foam (the stuff to go under loft decking) top and bottom - top covered in mylar, bottom faced with tough plastic so it can be set down on wet floors OK. Both push in and pop out.

Some serious heat shielding
THe concerns raised earlier in this thread were VERY legit and a source of some concern for me - needed to get some decent heat shielding in place. I had a load of roof tiles left from when we had the roof redone 2 years ago, plus a couple of metal shelves freed up from the adaptations to the gas bottle/HLT/mash tun stand and other shelving adaptations earlier. These seemed perfect for a front layer of metal reflecting the heat and holding in the tiles. The tiles also have pre-drilled holes (and are easy enough to drill as well) to help attach them.

Sorting side and front of shed:


And then the back as well:


Incredibly the roof tiles fit perfectly inside the two metal shelving bits from the stand - result! So that helped make the heat shield between burners and mash tun a lot more serious and add some structural weight to that frame too:


Here it is with the twin burners in situ:



MUCH happier at that now - seems to have some real shielding and integrity rather than balancing things

And finally setup with the kegs:


FInally seems to be finished!


While doing all the above I also took most of the kit on a test-drive making a Saison - which I've added as a thread the Brewdays forum while this has been moved to its more appropriate home in Brewing Equipment.

[lancsSteve]

Did my first full brew with all this kit - in typical silly style as the "Brewing Like Americans" thread in Brewdays.

The heat shielding worked spot on - no worries there - though when I had to reach under to relight a burner I'd accidentally switched off it was silly hot - really need a silicon glove (and something on my arm). Going to get me two of the elecrolux silicon gloves before next brew!

Mostly went really well LOVED the kit - PTFE around the 3/4" threads that the 3.4" male hose tap connectors were screwed into stopped the previous drip issues. No issues with doisconnects - need 3 more hoselock plasitc ones for the chiller and all done.

However I think I burned something on the pump out Used an underback and recirculated the wort and it never went dry but something DEFINITELY went 'ping' and a smell of burning/fusing. Pump was VERY hot too...

DO NOT RUN THE PUMP DRY If you do so you will crack the carbon seal and wort will leak everywhere (Another reason for a bypass loop the carbon seal is cooled by the moving wort). . . . I have discovered a spare seal kit for the pump . . . PM me your address Steve and I'll send it on.

Didn't run it dry on this occasion but had done for a few seconds at start up on previous brewday due to getting tap positions all wrong - literally seconds but... is that enough to damage it?

One thing when you start the pump for the mash recirc, you will need top open all the valves fully to fill the pump and pipework, then back off the pump outlet , fully open the bypass . . . and then switch on the pump

Set it up this way - incoming ball valve 90% open, recirc pretty much fully open, outlet half closed (to give enough flow to reach both boilers) - gave a good balance of iflow and outflow and as I say never ran dry:



However after running this way at full whack for about 10 minutes pump body was WAY hot to the touch and then the aforementioned burny smell and 'bad sound' It kept pumping wort OK but we weren't confident to continue using it at that time. Hopefully indicative of old seals (or were they stripped and replaced? now hoping not!) or something like that and can be fixed easily when I get replacement set - can anyone point me to a guide to changing them?

[Aleman]

Metal Body of Pump way to hot ??? Doesn't sound like a seal issue . . .when they go the wort leaks out the back of the stainless pump chamber around the shaft. replacement set is still on my window sill at home I will get them into the post asap. .. .but I did a full strip down and rebuild of the pump chamber before you collected. Pump worked fine when I tested it, and you are only pumping wort at mash temp ? ? ? ? Sounds like the pump motor has shorted out . . .or possibly the brushes. (Undo the two 'lugs' at the end of the green motor body)

[lancsSteve]

Metal Body of Pump way to hot ???

Yup - very hot indeed.

Doesn't sound like a seal issue . . .when they go the wort leaks out the back of the stainless pump chamber around the shaft.

No leakage and still pumped OK - just BLOODY hot!

but I did a full strip down and rebuild of the pump chamber before you collected. Pump worked fine when I tested it, and you are only pumping wort at mash temp ? ? ? ?

Thought so (and thanks) - worked fine as I say - pumping wort at mash temps no probs.

QUESTION: can you pump boiling wort or near-boiling worth though? Wouldn't you need to do that for either last 10 mins of boil (or first few minutes before switching immersion chillers on while wort is over 70c) to pasteurise motor and hoses before cooling below 70c? Trying to figure the recirculation-over-chillers bit.

Sounds like the pump motor has shorted out . . .

Any suspicions of likely causes for that?

or possibly the brushes. (Undo the two 'lugs' at the end of the green motor body)

Will take a look...

As I say it was working and pumping fine and continued to do so after the definite pop and smell of burning from the pump and the green body of the pump was very very hot to the touch...

[Aleman]

I always did pump boiling wort to sanitise the pump inards. I never had an issue with that pump (even using a motor speed controller - Burst fire controller) although it did used to hunt a bit and the pump body did get hot . . . not too hot to touch. The RG550 on the other hand used to cut out (It's thermally protected ) with the motor speed controller, but with the bypass rig I run the pump at full speed and control the flow with the outlet and bypass valves (Leave the inlet valve fully open they don't like inlet flow restriction). the motor body barely gets warm and never trips the thermal cut out.

I'm also thinking possibly motor bearings seized ?? . . .but that would make a god awful noise and the pump would refuse to turn . . . I's quite an easy strip down. . . .three allen bolts on the pump housing, then the impeller is held on by a nyloc nut . . .then there are some seals and a spring (to keep pressure on the carbon seal). . . three/four flat head screws and it all pulls off the motor shaft. . . .not sure how the motor case dismantles, but I do suspect its quite easy (Just undo the motor feed in the covered electric box.

And don't forget to take pictures of the dismantling sequence as it assembles in the reverse order

[lancsSteve]

Thanks aleman - from your descriptions it may have been over-worry on our part as there was definately nothing mechanical gone wrong and the pump kept working - it could have been a combo pf paranoia and sucking through a little grain or something so hearing a noise... Though the hint-of-burny smell was definit...

Pump body was hot, not too hot to touch but too hot to hold (if that differentiation makes sense) - again lack of experience could be the cause of worry there as anything that rotates at full speed pumping hot wort for a long time is unlikely to be cold!

Will take a look at bits and pieces and use some caution on next brew - good to know you can use it to pump boiling wort though

[MikeG]

yeh same story here with me in my shed with the condensation!

me too in our dining room which doesn't impress my wife

Mike.

[OccasionalTipple]

Looks good does that!

EDITED: Remove comment that had already been solved (heat shield related).

Looks like you'll be brewing and supping some fine ales soon!
I know I'd be itching to get it all fired up too

[k1100t]

Made the recirculating/flow control setup today after a quick bike ride to screwfix this morning:


Thanks again to Aleman for the help in figuring out bits and design - and The Mumbler for the pipe cutter and 15mm pipe!

Apologies for dredging this one up, but I'm interested in what all that pipe work is for on the pump...?

Cheers,

[Haydnexport]

its a way to regulate the flow down without harming the pump

[k1100t]

its a way to regulate the flow down without harming the pump

So is that for non-mag pumps then...? Or do all types of pump benefit...?

Cheers,

[Haydnexport]

non mag pumps mate.

[k1100t]

non mag pumps mate.

Ah, I did wonder. Thanks!

[patwestlake]

Just my 2p's worth as a time served chemical engineer who has had to commissioned a good number of carbon-bushed (amongst other) pumps... if there is one golden rule of pumping, NEVER only partially open the inlet valve on a pump, it can only end in tears! Starving a pump results in cavitation (you can detect this as a "rattling" or rushing noise in the pump head), and as this is actually the liquid boiling and generating vapor, the pump (and seal/bush) run dry. A Carbon bush running dry can get to 200 degC very quickly (<10 seconds), and as the next actions taken normally result in getting liquid in, the instant cooling just shatters the bush. Pumping hot liquids (HLT, Wort etc) only put any pump nearer to cavitation as you are naturally nearer the boiling point - so always use the largest bore pipes/valves you can with the minimum of fittings and restrictions.

The rest of the setup looks awesome btw!

Pat